Were the Disciples Guilty of Hypocrisy? - Page 2

staysharp · #11 03-29-2008, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by missdkendall

You guys get each other so worked up

That's because some people can't handle the truth, they're too busy trying to defend their heretical "pet" doctrines...

missdkendall · #12 03-29-2008, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staysharp

That's because some people can't handle the truth, they're too busy trying to defend their heretical "pet" doctrines...

ManOfWord · #13 03-29-2008, 08:26 PM

Once again, keeping the law was NOT a problem. What was a problem was keeping the law FOR justification.

Why can't a Jew remain a Jew by keeping the law for the purpose of his Jewish identity and at the same time accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah?

Are we saying that a Jew cannot become a Messianic Jew?

If I can be a Christian without following the "ceremonial" law, why can't a Jew be a Christian while choosing to keep the law as long as he accepts the Jewish messiah?

staysharp · #14 03-29-2008, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Once again, keeping the law was NOT a problem. What was a problem was keeping the law FOR justification.

Why can't a Jew remain a Jew by keeping the law for the purpose of his Jewish identity and at the same time accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah?

Are we saying that a Jew cannot become a Messianic Jew?

If I can be a Christian without following the "ceremonial" law, why can't a Jew be a Christian while choosing to keep the law as long as he accepts the Jewish messiah?

MOW, as long as our traditions don't get in the way of our salvation, I see nothing wrong in keeping whatever traditions one would like. However, I guess what Paul was saying, it wasn't necessary anymore. Why continue keeping the law, when Christ has made us free? A lot of work for nothing...?

We just came out of an organization that considered it a sin to cut a women's hair. They considered it a "sin of disobedience" and literally told people they were going to hell.

I don't have a problem with keeping whatever traditions they want, as long as they don't lie, cheat, manipulate and coerce people while trying to defend them.

What's wrong with telling people the truth. We do this because it's our traditions?

ManOfWord · #15 03-29-2008, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staysharp

MOW, as long as our traditions don't get in the way of our salvation, I see nothing wrong in keeping whatever traditions one would like. However, I guess what Paul was saying, it wasn't necessary anymore. Why continue keeping the law, when Christ has made us free? A lot of work for nothing...?

We just came out of an organization that considered it a sin to cut a women's hair. They considered it a "sin of disobedience" and literally told people they were going to hell.

I don't have a problem with keeping whatever traditions they want, as long as they don't lie, cheat, manipulate and coerce people while trying to defend them.

What's wrong with telling people the truth. We do this because it's our traditions?

Like you, I came out of a similar and maybe even the same organization.

This issue has nothing to do with the truth if one desires to keep their traditions as long as they do so for personal reasons and because they simply desire to. I am assuming that they already DO know the truth and desire to follow whatever traditions they choose. For Jews, their identity is their history, their life etc. Most Christians have no absolutely no idea how much their traditions mean to the Jews.

If people would do their research and reading, they would find that Jesus was a Pharisee. However, He was not of the sect that He criticized. He criticized the teachings of Bet (house of) Shammai and not the teachings of Bet Hillel. Once again, most Christians are completely ignorant of their Jewish origins, history and practice.

Hoovie · #16 03-29-2008, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Once again, keeping the law was NOT a problem. What was a problem was keeping the law FOR justification.

Why can't a Jew remain a Jew by keeping the law for the purpose of his Jewish identity and at the same time accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah?

Are we saying that a Jew cannot become a Messianic Jew?

If I can be a Christian without following the "ceremonial" law, why can't a Jew be a Christian while choosing to keep the law as long as he accepts the Jewish messiah?

MOW, I know some Amish and Old Order Mennonites who, like some Messianic Jews keep a very obvious and distinct identity and subculture.

I think there is a great temptation among such groups to loose the emphasis of the cross and focus much on "the laws" they have established to preserve their identity.

Truth is, I see it as somewhat problematic but certainly believe it can be done.

Praxeas · #17 03-29-2008, 10:04 PM

I think they kept the law out of Identification and as a means to continue to evangelize other Jews. They could show in the ceremonies Christ...the lamb of God

ManOfWord · #18 03-29-2008, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

MOW, I know some Amish and Old Order Mennonites who, like some Messianic Jews keep a very obvious and distinct identity and subculture.

I think there is a great temptation among such groups to loose the emphasis of the cross and focus much on "the laws" they have established to preserve their identity.

Truth is, I see it as somewhat problematic but certainly believe it can be done.

I agree. I have been with Messianic Rabbis who keep the dietary laws but do not do so out of fear. They do so because they believe that they should and not because they must. But it certainly can become problematic and many times does because of an over emphasis on their beliefs.