Reason enough to leave?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Ronzo

The CURSE of the law is the curse of the law of sin and death, not the Law of God.

That is not entirely accurate, brother.

Galatians 3:10 KJV For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written,Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Paul was speaking of the Law of God under the old covenant.

[A_PoMo]

Originally Posted by Bro-Larry

Bro. Ronzo, With all due respect, You show me one person who has never broken the law, except Jesus. All men have fallen under the curse of the law.

You yourself don't love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, neither do you love your neighbor as yourself. It's impossible. That's why the law was given: to show man that he could not please God by his own efforts. The law was our tutor who said, " you can't do it, look to Jesus".

The law was given to point us to Christ, the fulfillment of the law who demonstrated to us how to live the Law of Christ which is to love God and love others. Love is the point of the law and the law pointed us to a life of love.

[mfblume]

Bro Larry was correct in saying Law came to show us we needed Christ, by showing us how failing we are in ourselves to keep law and to urge us toward grace.

All these verses show this to be true:

Romans 3:19-22 KJV Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. (20) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. (21) But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; (22) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 4:15 KJV Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Romans 7:12-13 KJV Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. (13) Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

Galatians 3:19 KJV Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Galatians 3:24-25 KJV Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. (25) But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Acts 15:10 KJV Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

2 Corinthians 3:6-9 KJV (6) Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. (7) But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: (8) How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? (9) For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
.

[Sept5SavedTeen]

TRFrance,

He asked the opinions of others on AFF if what he did would be reason enough to leave. I gave my opinion. I didn't condemn anyone. I said, I would have studied it like a Berean, but regardless of what he or others do is cool, they go by how they feel led. I also said I would stay for the lesson, rather than leave, it is wise to hear a matter before dismissing it. And once again, this was at one time, commanded by GOD for HIS people, HIS people did it, and they were ok. Also, I stated a bit of my own bias by having partaken of the ministry of a minister who preached this when I was first getting saved. The assembly I attend now doesn't preach it, and I haven't studied this out, and I probably wouldn't teach it to my future assembly, but if my pastor wanted to do a study on this topic, I would consider his point, and not just storm out.

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

[A_PoMo]

We're saying the same thing except we disagree on 'purpose'. The law pointed us to Christ through showing us our sin. The purpose of the law is not to show us sin, but to take us past that to Christ and salvation by grace through faith. I think you stop and stick the 'purpose' label too soon in the process and on the wrong thing.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

We're saying the same thing except we disagree on 'purpose'. The law pointed us to Christ through showing us our sin. The purpose of the law is not to show us sin, but to take us past that to Christ and salvation by grace through faith. I think you stop and stick the 'purpose' label too soon in the process and on the wrong thing.

Paul distinctly said it was to show us our sin.

In Romans 3:20b, Paul wrote:

...for through the law comes the knowledge of sin.

Paul repeats this idea in Romans 7:7:

...Yet, if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, "You shall not covet."

[A_PoMo]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Paul distinctly said it was to show us our sin.

In Romans 3:20b, Paul wrote:

...for through the law comes the knowledge of sin.

Paul repeats this idea in Romans 7:7:

...Yet, if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, "You shall not covet."

But WHY? What's the purpose of that? I think you're stopping too soon. There's a reason it showed us sin. It doesn't show us sin just for the sake of showing us sin. Yes, it does show us sin. But why? It's to point us to faith in Christ.

To say simply that the law's purpose is to show us sin misses the point of the scriptural observation. That's the same as saying "I discipline my kids so that they will know how bad they are." We don't do that. We discipline our kids in order to shape them and point them to something larger than simply their wrong actions. THAT'S the purpose.

In our case the law was to point us to Christ. The point of the law wasn't to illustrate sin as much as it was to show how to live lives of holiness to God and love to each other. Ex 34 says it's about righteousness and justice which Christ clarified as "love God and love your neighbor". By pointing out sin the law pointed toward holiness, which points to Christ.

You focus too much on the negative and not enough on the positive. The positive is the purpose, not the negative.

JMO.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

But WHY? What's the purpose of that? I think you're stopping too soon.

Of course I am stopping too soon. Showing sinfulness was a means to an end. But you cannot say it was not involved as it seems you are saying.

There's a reason it showed us sin. It doesn't show us sin just for the sake of showing us sin. Yes, it does show us sin. But why? It's to point us to faith in Christ.

Of course. That is a given. I thought everyone knew that. Why even mention it?

To say simply that the law's purpose is to show us sin misses the point of the scriptural observation.

You missed my point.

You focus too much on the negative and not enough on the positive. The positive is the purpose, not the negative.

JMO.

You cannot say what I focus upon until you have heard all I have to say on the issue.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

TRFrance,

He asked the opinions of others on AFF if what he did would be reason enough to leave. I gave my opinion. I didn't condemn anyone. I said, I would have studied it like a Berean, but regardless of what he or others do is cool, they go by how they feel led. I also said I would stay for the lesson, rather than leave, it is wise to hear a matter before dismissing it. And once again, this was at one time, commanded by GOD for HIS people, HIS people did it, and they were ok. Also, I stated a bit of my own bias by having partaken of the ministry of a minister who preached this when I was first getting saved. The assembly I attend now doesn't preach it, and I haven't studied this out, and I probably wouldn't teach it to my future assembly, but if my pastor wanted to do a study on this topic, I would consider his point, and not just storm out.

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

You see, this wasn't about a knee-jerk reaction. It was about reacting to blatant falsehood and lies. Your church (at one time) actually taught this as well? How was it received by and large?

Here is an analogy: What if you were in a Church that taught the TRUTH to the best of your knowledge and understanding. Now, out of the blue the pastor started teaching about Santa Clause and how he visits every good little boy and girl in the world to give them presents. The ones who DIDN'T receive presents didn't receive them because they were not "good" (sin). Would you think this guy lost his mind? Would you try to study the Word and understand why he was teaching what he was teaching?