Why shouldn't I vote for Obama??

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by pelathais

But that assessment was wrong. The US founding fathers never made war against civilian populations in their fight with the British and they promoted institutions of democracy and freedom.

Che killed civilians, took civilian hostages and generally terrorized the countryside wherever he went. Comparing him to the founders is wrong. If you want to make a moral equivalence argument- you have to find two groups who behaved in a morally equivalent way.

Che Guevara and George Washington were not moral equivalents. In order to "deal well with international diplomacy" you've got to get your own moral values straight. Deliberately targeting civilian populations to advance your "revolution" is immoral. Compromising this principle will destroy any understanding that you might have been able to garner from like-minded people overseas. it's better to stick to the "high road" and not muddy ourselves trying to "understand" terrorists.

Now, what was your man Obama's top foreign policy wonk doing in Damascus last week at the Ayatollah's terrorist anniversary party? And what does this say about Obama's "understanding" of foreign affairs?

You're emotionally unbalanced or something. I never said that the Founders were equivalent to terrorists. I said that in the British mind they were. The Founding Fathers were considered "revolutionaries" and "rebels". We see them attacking British interests with acts like those seen in the Boston Tea Party. Now, I stand behind the Founding Fathers. But back in the day some British political nut would argue (like you are) that I was standing behind revolutionaries that have destroyed expensive British assets and who were provoking a war.

I know it's a bit complex in it's rationale, but it's true. For all I know those people just see Che as a symbol of revolution. They may not even agree with all of his tactics. For all I know those people might have family who died in Che's rebellion and the flag is a reminder to them to stand for Democracy. Without being in their heads I don't know exactly what they think. But from dealing with people from different countries and systems I do realize that they may have a vastly different opinion on a matter than I do. And they don't see themselves as terrorist nutcases.

I think Obama cleared it up when he expressed that it was inappropriate and didn't represent his personal views.

For crying out loud. As I said above, I know Neo-Nazis that vote strictly Republican tickets. They have Swastikas hanging in their offices. Am I to assume, as you are assuming that Democrats favor Che's rebellion, that for some reason Republicans are Neo-Nazis?

These are nutcases. And only nutcases are going to take them seriously.

[ChristopherHall]

You know, I'm starting to realize, you guys aren't too bright. LOL

[OP_Carl]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

. . .
When you grow up a little more you won't get all emotional and flip out at this kind of thing so easily.

Speaking of growing up, how about I go back through this thread and consolidate all the direct questions for which you provided no answers?

The inability to answer some of these philosophical questions is considered, as a rule, to be the end of the debate. People are "flipping out" because you've been unable to answer countless times, and yet you continue on with various tacks and tangents as though you are winning the debate.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by trickledown

Originally Posted by trickledown
Dave, I think that CH will always minor on these direct questions. He says that in America if you work hard, you are supposed to move forward. He works in a government union; this job type usually offers no advancement that is based on merit and hard work. There are multiplied protections for the laziest and least productive workers in this utopia that must be paid for by the whole.
[/COLOR]

What are you talking about? Fight for your own pea patch. Leave the security of your dead-end government job and go provide for your family by the virtues of hard work that you praise. It will be a risk aand you might not have as much time to praise democrats on this thread. Hey, once you start paying higher taxes, you might even question why you pay so much. You will be able to allow government to minister more with your higher taxes and you will be able to give charitably in the community and never compromise your standard of living currently. Sometimes hard weeks won't be fruitfull, but some weeks you may make what you now make in a month. The US is great and you can still have the American Dream. Just do it like your great grandparents generation. On Your Own!

Bro, I love my family too much to work in an office as a wage slave for 60 or 70 hours a week. I'm a father. When I'm on my death bed I won't be wishing I had spent more time in the office. I'll be wishing I had spent more time with my family. You can neglect your wife and children and be owned by the corporation I wont. We stood against those wage slave policies and we still do today. People are not cogs in the corporate machine who should be expected to work every hour they are awake. There has to be time for worship and family. Honestly sir....if you work 60 hours a week, I think you're neglecting your family. You may need to work that long to pay the bills...but there is a cost. Every hour you give the company is an hour you take from your wife and children. Studies are showing that Americans are working more than our grandparents did. This is having a toll on the institution of the family.

Bro, I'm not a Federal employee. I pay the same amount in taxes as you do. I also have automatic deductions giving regular contributions to the local food bank and a charity that provides clothing for people who are entering the workforce from homelessness or welfare.

Please, stop insulting me and realize you spell "love" T-I-M-E. I know you're a wage slave and work from dusk until dawn. Just take the time to be a father and a husband. I've seen too many marriages wrecked because the husband had an affair with the office.

Oh...and if you enjoy having a weekend to attend church and family events...thank unions. If your work place offers you any benefits whatsoever, thank unions.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

Speaking of growing up, how about I go back through this thread and consolidate all the direct questions for which you provided no answers?

The inability to answer some of these philosophical questions is considered, as a rule, to be the end of the debate. People are "flipping out" because you've been unable to answer countless times, and yet you continue on with various tacks and tangents as though you are winning the debate.

Feel free. I'll cut and past my answers. And if I didn't answer it, I'll do my best to. It's not a debate, it's a discussion.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

You're emotionally unbalanced or something. I never said that the Founders were equivalent to terrorists. I said that in the British mind they were. The Founding Fathers were considered "revolutionaries" and "rebels". We see them attacking British interests with acts like those seen in the Boston Tea Party. Now, I stand behind the Founding Fathers. But back in the day some British political nut would argue (like you are) that I was standing behind revolutionaries that have destroyed expensive British assets and who were provoking a war.

I know it's a bit complex in it's rationale, but it's true. For all I know those people just see Che as a symbol of revolution. They may not even agree with all of his tactics. For all I know those people might have family who died in Che's rebellion and the flag is a reminder to them to stand for Democracy. Without being in their heads I don't know exactly what they think. But from dealing with people from different countries and systems I do realize that they may have a vastly different opinion on a matter than I do. And they don't see themselves as terrorist nutcases.

I think Obama cleared it up when he expressed that it was inappropriate and didn't represent his personal views.

For crying out loud. As I said above, I know Neo-Nazis that vote strictly Republican tickets. They have Swastikas hanging in their offices. Am I to assume, as you are assuming that Democrats favor Che's rebellion, that for some reason Republicans are Neo-Nazis?

These are nutcases. And only nutcases are going to take them seriously.

The difference? Republicans do not embrace neo-nazis, but the democrats embrace the idea of communistic and socialistic lobbyists.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

The difference? Republicans do not embrace neo-nazis, but the democrats embrace the idea of communistic and socialistic lobbyists.

That's just propaganda. Who passed NAFTA?

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

You know, I'm starting to realize, you guys aren't too bright. LOL

Look who's calling the kettle black, after reading all of your writing, I wonder if you just like to write for the sake of appearing smart. LOL!

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

That's just propaganda. Who passed NAFTA?

Why? Because you say so?

[BrotherEastman]

Hey Chris, maybe you should lay off politics for awhile.