Universal Health Care

[ForeverBlessed]

Originally Posted by Pragmatist

I just wanted to address the "greed of the large corporations" theory.

They do not decide whether you get treatment or not, they decide whether or not the contract that two parties agreed to covers the cost of the treatment.

And the insurance company that I worked for consistently lost money year after year on health insurance until finally they left the health insurance market altogether.

I do agree that part of the problem is that the majority of consumers have no idea of the true cost of medical coverage. People whine about their $25 copayment for a $400 office visit.

oh, and do they whine.... I hate collecting copays. Drives me absolutely crazy when a Lilly employee from around here, lets their petty $5 copays rack up and I am sending letters... I want to yank them through the phone and

I work for a medical network and I have a $1,700 deductible.. so, if it wasn't for my health savings account... I would just go sick instead of being seen.

[ForeverBlessed]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

How do you all feel about forcing drivers to have car insurance or they don't drive? On that note...how about forcing people to have health insurance or they don't have a right to live? Stupid I know but hospitals are paying for the uninsured and they are passing the costs on to those with insurance.

You are correct, they have to off set those write offs somewhere...

One of our best payers is "Medicare" Nine of the physicians that I collect for specialize in geriatrics and it is the easiest office to collect after..

Medicare pays fairly well, and most of those on Medicare today are from the generation that pays their bills timely... not a lot of bad debt generated there.

[ForeverBlessed]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

It is my understanding that there are governmental caps placed on hospital charges. We can bill what we want to but that doesn't mean we'll get paid.

You are right, there are pretty much caps with every insurance company... We are under contract and even though we bill a much higher amount, we get about 70...maybe 80% of what we charge. Of course there is a lot of contract negotiating going on ... everyone has to give a little.

Medicaid pays the least... and requires so many restrictions... we have to adjust off anything they do not pay,(and they don't pay much) and we can't refuse care even if they had a large collections balance prior to having Medicaid. At least the doctors have the right put cap on the number of patients on their Medicaid panel.... and some even refuse to have a Medicaid panel.

[Ron]

Below is a few comments about what our health care in Canada is all about.
It still requires health care premiums which right now is $108 a month all inclusive for my family.
The Provincial & Ferderal Governments sit down & work out a contract with the Doctors & Private Labs, Imaging Labs, & some private hospitals.
They agree to Fees for services rendered.
One thing that also is different in Canada is costs.
A Hostpital may charge $600 a day for a patient to stay, whereas in Canada that may be $300 a day.
A surgery to remove an appendix may be $10,000 in the us vs $5,000 in Canada.
The hospitals are modern, some are being expanding, but Canada is facing something the US has to face as well.
There is a worldwide shortage of Doctors & Nurses that isn't going to be fixed soon.

Does Canada have a national health insurance plan?

Canada does not have a single national health care plan, but rather a national health insurance program, which is achieved through a series of thirteen interlocking provincial and territorial health insurance plans, all of which share certain common features and basic standards of coverage, with slight differences. Under the Canada Health Act, our national health care program is designed to ensure that all residents of Canada have reasonable access to medically necessary hospital and physician services on a prepaid basis, and on uniform terms and conditions.
Who is eligible for health care in Canada?

Our national health insurance program is designed to ensure that all residents of Canada have access to medically necessary hospital and physician care on a prepaid basis. Residence in a province or territory is the basic requirement for insured health care coverage. The Canada Health Act defines a resident of a province or territory as:

"a person lawfully entitled to be or to remain in Canada who makes his home and is ordinarily present in the province, but does not include a tourist, a transient or a visitor to the province."

Each province and territory is responsible for determining its own minimum residence requirements with regard to an individual's eligibility for benefits under its health insurance plan. The Canada Health Act gives no guidance on such minimum residence requirements beyond an initial three-month waiting period to establish eligibility for and entitlement to insured health services. Provinces may require minimum residence annually in the province, and evidence of intention of returning to the province for that minimum residence period each year.

The federal government is responsible for:

* setting and administering national principles or standards for the health care system through the Canada Health Act;
* assisting in the financing of provincial health care services through fiscal transfers;
* delivering direct health services to specific groups including veterans, native Canadians living on reserves, military personnel, inmates of federal penitentiaries and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police; and
* fulfilling other health-related functions such as health protection, disease prevention and health promotion.

The provincial and territorial governments are responsible for:

* managing and delivering health care services;
* planning, financing, and evaluating the provision of hospital care;
* physician and allied health care services; and
* managing some aspects of prescription care and public health.

What health care services are insured by the provinces and territories?

Under the Canada Health Act, provincial and territorial health insurance plans are required to provide coverage to their residents for all medically necessary hospital and physician services on a prepaid basis.
What other health care services do provinces and territories provide?

Provinces and territories may also offer "additional benefits" under their respective health insurance plans, at their discretion, and on their own terms and conditions. While these services vary from province to province, some examples include prescription drug benefits, dental care, optometric services, chiropractic services, hearing aids, transportation services and home care programs.
What health care services are not covered by provinces and territories?

Services not covered are generally those considered not to be medically necessary. Some examples include: cosmetic surgery, health examinations for employment purposes and tattoo removal. However, there can be exceptions; for example, the removal of concentration camp tattoos or reconstructive cosmetic surgery following a trauma.




Discovering he had colon cancer came as a shock to John Kioussis, but after 10 days in the hospital, attended by a battery of medical specialists, technicians, nurses and other staff, his bill came to less than $85 in American dollars -- and that was only for his phone and cable TV.

Under Canada's government-funded health insurance system, Kioussis' care, from the first visit to a family doctor, through visits to two specialists of his choice and his hospital stay, was free, paid for by Ontario's publicly funded universal health coverage.

"When you're sick like that and off work, the last thing you want to worry about is how to pay the bill," said Kioussis, 55. "I had excellent care and one of the top specialists in the country, the same doctor who would treat the prime minister."

That's the side of Canadian health care familiar to many Americans -- a system that provides free cradle-to-grave treatment to all, regardless of income or employment status.

The fact is, though, that Canada's system is riddled with problems, many stemming from inadequate funding. As a result, delays of several months are common before seeing a specialist or getting nonemergency surgery.

For his part, Kioussis said the month he waited between seeing his family doctor and his surgery did not seem unreasonable. He admitted, though, that because of a personal connection between his brother and the surgeon, the doctor operated on him just before he left for vacation.

Although delays and other problems have caused support to dip slightly, Canadians still overwhelmingly back their universal health program. They think of their health care system as a mark of their national identity, something that separates them from Americans.

Meanwhile, a recent ABC News poll showed that while Americans value the quality of U.S. health care, 62 percent think the nation should shift to a universal health insurance program like Canada's.

As a result of the sharply differing approaches Canada and the United States have taken toward financing health care, their medical systems have developed in contrasting ways.

The United States has more hospital beds per person than Canada because most American hospitals are private, while almost all Canadian hospitals are publicly funded. As a result, American hospitals compete for patients, while Canadian hospitals "don't fund excess capacity," said Sharon Sholzberg-Gray, chief executive of the Canadian Healthcare Association.

By many measures, Canadians are healthier than Americans, with a longer lifespan and lower infant mortality, even though they spend much less on medical care. Canadians devote about 10 percent of their gross domestic product, the total of a nation's goods and services, to provide full health coverage for all citizens. American health costs account for about 14 percent of GDP, yet 45 million Americans have no health insurance and many more have limited coverage.

One of the main culprits pushing up the cost of care in the United States is the expense of administering a plethora of complicated health plans. It has been estimated that any large health insurer in a midsize U.S. state spends more on administration than is spent on health administration in all Canada.

Dr. Catherine Kurosu is a gynecologist at two San Diego hospitals. A Canadian, she said the biggest differences between the two systems are that poorer Americans won't seek medical care until their problems have become serious. In addition, she said, American insurers often play games to avoid paying bills.

In San Diego, a lot of pregnant women -- especially illegal immigrants -- show up with problems that could have been avoided with prenatal care, she said. The idea that they can't get this kind of care "still seems foreign to me," she said.

"My patients are always interested in finding out about the health care system when they find out I'm Canadian," she continued.

When it comes to billing, the Canadian system is a simple matter of sending an invoice to the Ministry of Health, which pays on a fee-for-service basis, she explained. In the United States, there are so many insurance companies, each with its own rules covering not only the patient but also the doctor -- as Kurosu learned when she had to wait months for an insurance company to approve her.

U.S. health insurers nickel and dime doctors by always sending bills back and questioning everything, she said. "It's like a game to see how long they can forestall payment."

Eleven years ago, Colleen Burns started a medical imaging business in Buffalo, N.Y., right across the border from Ontario. She expected 20 percent of her business would come from Canadians willing to pay $300 to $600 in U.S. for quicker access to high-tech diagnostics. Instead, the proportion is only about 8 to 10 percent, she said.

Canadians need to feel a sense of urgency and have the money before coming to the United States, "because they can get an MRI for free in Canada," she said.


Canada's system "Perfect?" No.
But it isn't the big bogeyman everyone thinks it is.

[scotty]

US editing

Originally Posted by Ron

Below is a few comments about what our health care in Canada is all about.
It still requires health care premiums which right now is $108 a month all inclusive for my family.
The Provincial & Ferderal Governments sit down & work out a contract with the Doctors & Private Labs, Imaging Labs, & some private hospitals.
This would take longer than my life span
They agree to Fees for services rendered.
One thing that also is different in Canada is costs.
A Hostpital may charge $600 a day for a patient to stay, whereas in Canada that may be $300 a day.
A surgery to remove an appendix may be $10,000 in the us vs $5,000 in Canada.
The hospitals are modern, some are being expanding, but Canada is facing something the US has to face as well.
There is a worldwide shortage of Doctors & Nurses that isn't going to be fixed soon.
We import students from other countries and give them free medical college in return for practicing their skills on us.

Does Canada have a national health insurance plan?

Canada does not have a single national health care plan, but rather a national health insurance program, which is achieved through a series of thirteen interlocking provincial and territorial health insurance plans, all of which share certain common features and basic standards of coverage, with slight differences. Under the Canada Health Act, our national health care program is designed to ensure that all residents of Canada have reasonable access to medically necessary hospital and physician services on a prepaid basis, and on uniform terms and conditions.
Who is eligible for health care in Canada?

Our national health insurance program is designed to ensure that all residents of Canada have access to medically necessary hospital and physician care on a prepaid basis. Residence in a province or territory is the basic requirement for insured health care coverage. The Canada Health Act defines a resident of a province or territory as:

It would take our congress another lifetime to pass this and when we did there would be so many earmarks it would be bankrupt right out the door.

"a person lawfully entitled to be or to remain in Canada who makes his home and is ordinarily present in the province, but does not include a tourist, a transient or a visitor to the province."

This means our illegal aliens can't be covered ....that will never work.

Each province and territory is responsible for determining its own minimum residence requirements with regard to an individual's eligibility for benefits under its health insurance plan. The Canada Health Act gives no guidance on such minimum residence requirements beyond an initial three-month waiting period to establish eligibility for and entitlement to insured health services. Provinces may require minimum residence annually in the province, and evidence of intention of returning to the province for that minimum residence period each year.

The federal government is responsible for:

* setting and administering national principles or standards for the health care system through the Canada Health Act;
Principles? We have sex scandels and embezzelment in government. No principals here.
* assisting in the financing of provincial health care services through fiscal transfers;
This requires fiscal responsibility. yeah right
* delivering direct health services to specific groups including veterans, native Canadians living on reserves, military personnel, inmates of federal penitentiaries and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police; and
* fulfilling other health-related functions such as health protection, disease prevention and health promotion.

The provincial and territorial governments are responsible for:

* managing and delivering health care services;
* planning, financing, and evaluating the provision of hospital care;
* physician and allied health care services; and
* managing some aspects of prescription care and public health.
Like we manage, plan, finance, evaluate and deliver SS, Medicare, Medicade, VA Benifits, welfare, IRS, education, (inhale) .....you get the picture.

What health care services are insured by the provinces and territories?

Under the Canada Health Act, provincial and territorial health insurance plans are required to provide coverage to their residents for all medically necessary hospital and physician services on a prepaid basis.
What other health care services do provinces and territories provide?

Provinces and territories may also offer "additional benefits" under their respective health insurance plans, at their discretion, and on their own terms and conditions. While these services vary from province to province, some examples include prescription drug benefits, dental care, optometric services, chiropractic services, hearing aids, transportation services and home care programs.
What health care services are not covered by provinces and territories?

Services not covered are generally those considered not to be medically necessary. Some examples include: cosmetic surgery, health examinations for employment purposes and tattoo removal. However, there can be exceptions; for example, the removal of concentration camp tattoos or reconstructive cosmetic surgery following a trauma.

Absolutly love it, I say we all move to Canada...

:helico pter


any way we can get there

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Ron

Falla,

More scare stories by the people who control the money in the US.
I have lived with our system of health care for all my life and it hasn't failed me.

Ever wonder if it is so bad, why do the majority of Canadians want to retain it?

We have had 3 American Preachers who live & Pastor up here so they have access to the same services as we Canadians.
Thier surgeries were top notch, improved thier lives, & they thank God they didn't have it in the US.

Why is the head of the Canadian Medical Association is opening "private practice" clinics around Canada.

Why did that Canadian lawmaker come to the United States for her cancer surgery?

And who "controls the money in the US?" I control the money in my wallet. That's a pretty fair system. Why would I support a system the enables government minions to control what's mine?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by scotty

US editing





Absolutly love it, I say we all move to Canada...

:helico pter


any way we can get there

It is a beautiful place, but socialism failed. Why don't people remember that socialism has failed?

[scotty]

Originally Posted by pelathais

It is a beautiful place, but socialism failed. Why don't people remember that socialism has failed?

sssshhhhhh

Thought maybe the ones who wanted it would get excited and move....

I ain't goin no where..

[Ron]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Why is the head of the Canadian Medical Association is opening "private practice" clinics around Canada.

Why? There is money to be made, and there is a shortage of supply. There is a worldwide shortage of Doctors & nurses even in the USA.

Why did that Canadian lawmaker come to the United States for her cancer surgery?

If she can pay for it, why not? She can also go to Britain, China, or wherever, it is a free country.

And who "controls the money in the US?" I control the money in my wallet.
What you don't control is the Doctors & corporate hospitals that where making money is a priority-not patient health care.

That's a pretty fair system.

Why would I support a system the enables government minions to control what's mine?

Why should you support Taxes for Roads, Schools, Police, & even Welfare!

Now Dat's the name of that tune!

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by pelathais
Why is the head of the Canadian Medical Association is opening "private practice" clinics around Canada.

Why? There is money to be made, and there is a shortage of supply. There is a worldwide shortage of Doctors & nurses even in the USA.

But he's the head of the gov't system. Why create an inefficient redundancy if the gov't plan is so good? He's doing it because the Canadian social medical plan won't last. You can't import enough Muslims to support you in retirement as it is. And besides, when your population of Canucks is old and infirm and on the dole, why do you think those Muslim immigrants are even going to care about you at all? You should be building a sustainable society, not dying off like Old Europe.

Are Canadians covered by any insurance in the private clinics or is it completely out-of-pocket? Why are the people going to private clinics paying twice just to recieve medical care once?

Why did that Canadian lawmaker come to the United States for her cancer surgery?

If she can pay for it, why not? She can also go to Britain, China, or wherever, it is a free country.

But she was already paying for her own health insurance in Canada. She came to the U.S. to recieve surgery that her Canadian government plan had said would be delayed. The social medical plan has caused longer waiting lists for medical care.

And who "controls the money in the US?" I control the money in my wallet.
What you don't control is the Doctors & corporate hospitals that where making money is a priority-not patient health care.

Yes, I do control that. And this might be a concept so basic that it escapes most people in socialist societies. When I choose to spend my health care dollars at a clinic or hospital that puts "me" first, then both myself and the hospital's funds (heretofore "my money") are at the top of the list.

Besides, most hospitals in the U.S. are non-profit corporations. Very few operate on a for-profit basis. The health care workers, however, work according to their own self interests and are compensated at a rate higher than people in every other industry. So most of the money that you fear is in the hands of "corporations" is really in the hands of people like you and me.

...And the trial lawyers. Frivolous medical lawsuits are a bane to our system. Presidential candidate John Edwards amassed a private fortune of over $200 million dollars by suing the makers of breast implants. For several years silicone breast implants were unavailable. Then they were found to be harmless and are back. Edwards, however gets to keep his $200+ million!

That's where we get ripped off.

Now, just for a moment, imagine how you would feel if the gov't gave you all the money you needed to take care of your health expenses. That they just gave you that money and doctors and hospitals competed for the privilege of treating your cankers, or whatever. You could choose where and when you wanted a procedure done. You could choose the doctor. You would have power over your own life and death decisions!

Ah... now we see why they wanted to take that away from you. And why did you let them, again? Were you afraid? Did they make you feel that you weren't "smart" enough? Did they tell you that you weren't "good" enough or that your community wasn't "fair" enough?

That's a pretty fair system. (Me keeping the money in my wallet, ed.)

Why would I support a system the enables government minions to control what's mine?

Why should you support Taxes for Roads, Schools, Police, & even Welfare!

"Why should I pay to support taxes?" Think about that for a bit and you may understand why we threw your tea into the harbor. The best roads in my area are paid for by me and a private corporation. The best schools in America are private schools.

Welfare is what we do to help each other out during hard times - and it's a lot cheaper for me and a some neighbors to take care of each other than it is to send more money than necessary to Washington and then see my neighbors still in need. It makes better sense to do things yourself than to hire John Edwards and Co. to bilk everyone.

Originally Posted by Ron

Now Dat's the name of that tune!

Sing that tune in Arabic for me, please. You don't? Well, you'd better learn.