Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila
I think God commanded Israel to do so but we are not part of that covenant. God would have us preach the gospel and reach a gay person's heart with the power and love of Christ...not a death sentence. It's no wonder they're afraid of Christians and that so many are afraid of conservative Christians in politics when we say things like this.
There is another thing, Dave, while you say it's the role of civil government, to you that's just a theological statement relating to what you see as a biblical political philosophy. To you it's just a statement embodying your feelings against gays (makes me wonder brother) and what you think should be in your idea of an "ideal" Christian society.
But there are others out there who read statements like what you're making and they feel that our government isn't executing or punishing gays....so they take matters into their own hands. Many hate groups feed off of this kind of stuff. I'm not saying that you intend this with your words but your words offer them the inspiration and sense of moral mission. This is why some gays have been beaten to death in violent crimes of nothing but pure hate. The people beating them to death feel that they are fulfilling a moral mission that the government is failing to perform and so they feel morally justified. We as Christians shouldn't feel free to just rattle off anything like this...and not expect to be held to an account for the repercussions of our words. What if some angry, abused, hurting Apostolic reads your words and feels like taking all his angst out on some gay man in a dark alley on the seedy side of town? That gay man is someone's son, maybe someone's dad, and he's a soul Jesus died on the cross for. Dave words have power. Words can bring life or words can kill. We should be "Christian" with our words. The other thing that bothers me about this is that only two brothers here have actually called you to an account for what you're saying and supporting. I'm surprised the forum administrators haven't stepped in. Dave, this is just a hair short of advocating violence against people on Apostolic Friends Forum. It's not right and I'm shocked that this line of thought is even remotely tolerated here. Maybe I'm in the minority but I love sinners. I want to see them saved not killed. And even if you're joking your words can be fuel to a fire that could cost someone their lives. Back in the day Christians used to support slavery and say many awful things about black people. There were lynchings and hangings of escaped slaves and the Bible was often invoked as a justification for the action. This really frightens me.
It might not matter to many of us...but to those with gay loved ones that we're praying for it's very upsetting. I think the word "offensive" is too soft for what these words help to feed. I don't think Jesus is glorified by us saying that the government should kill gay people. I think it does violence to our mission and causes a lost world to fear us and hold us with contempt as opposed to realizing that we actually care for them as people. No wonder liberals and gays think we're dangerous to society. If I didn't know you were in the fringe minority I'd wonder if they were right. But what you're saying does make the rest of us look bad. It makes us look like Christians who want to wage Jihad against gay people. I'm real upset with the whole thing Dave.
Let's also consider that some of here WERE once bound by that spirit. Some here WERE once in that lifestyle before Jesus found us and cleansed us. Some here WERE once resisting the truth and fighting God's convicting Spirit in our lives. Some here WERE once dead set against becoming a Christian...but God finally broke the ice and set the sinner free through the power of the Holy Ghost. Your words cause the blood to run cold. Why? Because at one point....you would have executed some of us long before God was finished dealing with us.
I commend Praxeus and Chris for standing up against what I've read here. I think they used strong words but nothing close to saying someone should be killed.
I don't want Apostolic Friends Forum to be known as a harbor for this kind of thing. I'm bothered as to why this hasn't been addressed.
For our hardened brothers I pray that they might lean on their mercy and preach the gospel.
For our defenders of the sinner, I see your love for the lost and pray you continue on in grace preaching the Gospel of Jesus.
And for our sinner friends who may have read this, the vast majority of us wouldn't stand by and allow a government as proposed here harm you in any way. We want to see you saved not harmed.
God bless you all.
Amen.
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I appreciate your obvious concern for people in general and gays in particular.
My concern is being faithful to the law of God and I believe that it can be exegetically proven that our God hasn't change His position in the matter.
Just to clarify my position. I do not believe that it is right for private individuals, lynch mobs, or the like to take the law into their own hands. This is for the civil authorities alone. I believe in lawful trials with representation. I also believe that if one turns from his ways he can reject that lifestyle and live a Godly life. I have seen it.
I have 2 very good gay friends who know that I care and know that I'm against their lifestyle. I, in no way, wish them harm and hope and pray that God draws them to Himself.
Something that concerns me is that you must think God feels different about that sin today. It's almost a different God....... Today we have a kinder more gentle God. I think our God hates the sin just as much and there are obvious times when He still gives judgment. BTW, until a relatively few years ago there were anti-sodomy laws in several of our states.
Just to reiterate my position. I believe it is Scriptural and my feelings don't matter. I do not hate homosexuals and I hope and pray for the salvation of my friends that are in that lifestyle. But I fear the Holy God that I serve and take His word seriously. I would hope you would fear the One that can not only kill the body........
I will not say any more on this matter.
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