((((((((((((TULSA BOMBSHELL))))))))) "49 Elders" Explained!! See this LIST

Originally Posted by revrandy

One thing about the Leadership List....

Seems like a lot of related folks there....

Of course, they all have the last name Jesus... just ask Johnny James!

Originally Posted by PreacherV

Hmmmm....good question. I'll get back with you when I have a more convenient season.

You are granted a dispensation of grace to form the answer in your heart. I will hear when you are ready to answer.

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by revrandy

I think the reason they will alllow folks to stay in the UPC is that they don't want any UPC church coming in to town....and putting up shop...as it were...

This could be a HUGE factor in what some actually wind up doing. Sad.

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by keith4him

Sad, people leaving and starting a another organization built on the premise of being against something (FEAR) rather than this is what we are for (FAITH)!

Novel concept, what is that about? EXTREME TIC.

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Pianoman, this is not up to your usual level of clarity...

What in the world do you mean?

This has nothing to do with the nuclear family unit.

We are talking about the fact that trying to compare the organization's relationship to pastors is not analogous to a pastor's relationship with saints.

We are discussig this Tulsa stuff, Pianoman, not whether the local church or the family is paramount.

The truth is that the family and the localchurch are supposed to work hand in glove, not in a hierarchial structure.

But that is a discussion that has nothing to do with Tulsa.

Level One - Family
The woman chooses the man whom she will submit to as her head. The children have no choice but to submit to both the father and mother. This choice of spouse can change if there is unfaithfulness in the marriage.


Level two - church

The family chooses which church and pastor that they will submit to. This choice can change several times in a family's lifetime. (re: moving, unhappy, doctrine, etc.)

Level three - church association or organization

The pastor or church chooses which organizational structure or association that they will submit to. This too can change over the years. (re: doctrinal differences, unhappy)

Rebellion against the structure that you submitted to is comparable on each level, but becomes more life altering depending on the level of submission.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Pianoman

Level One - Family
The woman chooses the man whom she will submit to as her head. The children have no choice but to submit to both the father and mother. This choice of spouse can change if there is unfaithfulness in the marriage.


Level two - church

The family chooses which church and pastor that they will submit to. This choice can change several times in a family's lifetime. (re: moving, unhappy, doctrine, etc.)

Level three - church association or organization

The pastor or church chooses which organizational structure or association that they will submit to. This too can change over the years. (re: doctrinal differences, unhappy)

Rebellion against the structure that you submitted to is comparable on each level, but becomes more life altering depending on the level of submission.

The first two levels you submitted are God ordained.

The third is not.

In spiritual matters, I am submitted to my pastor and elders in my life.

I submit to officals in the organization insomuch as organizational matters are concerned, but that does not compare to the degree of authority my pastor has in my life.

It is a man made thing, and not analogous to the relationship between me and my pastor.

[revrandy]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

The first two levels you submitted are God ordained.

The third is not.

In spiritual matters, I am submitted to my pastor and elders in my life.

I submit to officals in the organization insomuch as organizational matters are concerned, but that does not compare to the degree of authority my pastor has in my life.

It is a man made thing, and not analogous to the relationship between me and my pastor.

I do believe you've experienced the loss of a Pastor too you've discusses this here in the past....has that been remedied yet?

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by keith4him

Sad, people leaving and starting a another organization built on the premise of being against something (FEAR) rather than this is what we are for (FAITH)!

Matt asked somewhere why all the fuss- you all wanted them to leave and now you are upset that they did leave.

If there were acceptance of immorality such as spousal immorality, I wonder if some of you would think the same of a new org starting.

What if the acceptance of Gays in ministry afflicted the UPCI?? Would you then say that these men were so bad?

The Ultra-Conservative Mindset considers TV as unacceptable as Gays in the pulpit.

Some of you need to go with the flow, and let them leave and

Get over it.



(not personally against you Keith)

[Thad]

Boomm check your PM

[Thad]

*****NEWSFLASH*****


Has anyone heard reports about preachers/Pastors who were planning to come to Tulsa being upset over the discovery of all the officials already being chosen??

some preachers that were planning to come were under the impression that that is part of what the conference was for !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!