The Initial Physical Evidence

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Peter went fishing. After Jesus resurrected, he had to go into an upper room and pray until the Promise came.

What in the world do you folks think the Promise is?? just some optional gadget that you can zap folks with. It is the Life of Jesus Christ coming into your heart. It is the earnest payment. It is eternal life. It is the quickening to life of a new and living way.

The error of Simon The Sorcerer comes to mind.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

If you are asking me...I dont think everyone that is saved speaks in tongues (perfect example - Carpenter's grandfather..I think it was Carp who shared this)...and by saying this I am not implying one should not desire tongues or that it is unimportant.

So there are those that will never know this powerful act of praying in the Holy Ghost?? God will withhold from them the powerful release of praying in tongues?

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

So there are those that will never know this powerful act of praying in the Holy Ghost?? God will withhold from them the powerful release of praying in tongues?

Aren't you happy that their name is written in the book of life? Jesus saves! God distributes gifts of the HG as he determines.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Theophilus

The error of Simon The Sorcerer comes to mind.

Simon wanted to buy the anointing and miracle working power of the Holy Ghost that Jesus told His disciples to wait for. And why were they told to wait there in Jerusalem for it? Because it would give them power to accomplish ministry .... the evidence of which Simon saw and desired, but for selfish ambition.

Originally Posted by Felicity

Simon wanted to buy the anointing and miracle working power of the Holy Ghost that Jesus told His disciples to wait for. And why were they told to wait there in Jerusalem for it? Because it would give them power to accomplish ministry .... the evidence of which Simon saw and desired, but for selfish ambition.

That is why he saw it as a gizmo. Perhaps he had made a habit of collecting "gizmos" prior to.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Theophilus

That is why he saw it as a gizmo. Perhaps he had made a habit of collecting "gizmos" prior to.

"Gizmo" .... that's funny.

Well possibly you're right but I never saw it as a gizmo. I simply wanted everything that God had for me and of course we were taught that Spirit infilling/baptism was essential. It was never taught as an option.

I sought long and hard and when I finally received my life changed spiritually but I didn't feel as if I was now saved and regenerated and hadn't been previous. what happened is that I began to be useful to the kingdom of God and to the church in a way I hadn't previous.

My prayer life took off. I began to pray intercessorily (is that a word? not sure. ) and the gifts of the Spirit began to work in my life. My spiritual life deepened; consecration and commitment did too.

I read something the other day that a pastor wrote that has impacted me in regard to Spirit baptism and the kingdom of God. I gained perspective in a way I hadn't ever before. It was almost revelatory. I'm still thinking on it .... weighing it.

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Can you answer this question??

Will everyone speak in holy ghost tongues at some point in their life, or is it just for a select group?

"tongues" will always be an interesting and controversial subject. In answer to this specific question, while I preach strongly, as I did to over 1000 people here in Cairo, Egypt last night that God wants them to be filled with the Holy Ghost and speak with other tongues, I have to admit there have been folks in churches I have pastored that never spoke in tongues, but they certainly loved God, and showed by the fruit of their lives that the Spirit was present.

How DO you explain folks who don't speak in tongues yet produce the same fruit and sometimes even more fruit of the Spirit than some who do?

The Bible does teach that by their fruits you shall know them and that it is in the producing of much fruit that the Father is glorified.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

"tongues" will always be an interesting and controversial subject. In answer to this specific question, while I preach strongly, as I did to over 1000 people here in Cairo, Egypt last night that God wants them to be filled with the Holy Ghost and speak with other tongues, I have to admit there have been folks in churches I have pastored that never spoke in tongues, but they certainly loved God, and showed by the fruit of their lives that the Spirit was present.

How DO you explain folks who don't speak in tongues yet produce the same fruit and sometimes even more fruit of the Spirit than some who do?

The Bible does teach that by their fruits you shall know them and that it is in the producing of much fruit that the Father is glorified.

I can't explain it, Elder, but I believe one MUST be filled with the Holy Ghost and speak with tongues.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by samp

Are there any Pentecostals who do not believe that speaking in tongues is the inititial physical evidence of the baptism in the Holy Spirit?

[B][There are two kind of gifts of tongues as Paul wrote,)1Cor.13[1] Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.(They spoke in tongues of men on the day of Pentecost when filled with the Holy Ghost,Tongues of angels is when you speak to God)

./B]On the day of Pentecost they were prophesying in tongues and it was being interpreted in 17 different tongues from the mouths of the speakers to the ears of the hearers because the writers said this.THIS IS THAT,this is that what you now hear.God said they would prophecy,not speak in tongues when filled with the Holy Ghost.Acts.2:16: But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel.17: And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams.

(Ways tongues is interpreted,)1 Cor.14: 6. Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

(On the day of Pentecost it was interpreted because all the hearers understood in their own language.So there was the gift of tongues and the interpretation of tongues and prophecy.Three gifts on the day of Pentecost.)Acts2:[8] And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

This is what's going on in the church today,1 Cor.14:23: If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?(crazy)

This is what should be taking place in the church,1 Cor.14:24: But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:25: And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth

On the day of pentecost when they spoke in tongues it was understood. Today when people speaks in tongues 99% of the time it is not understood.

On the day of Pentecost tongues was understood.What did Paul say about tongues that were not understood?Paul wrote in Cor. 14: 1: Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
2: For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue (tongues of angels)speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.3: But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort
3: But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.4: He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.5: I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying
18: I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:19: Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.20: Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men


Most will agree what Isa.wrote was talking about the pouring out of the Holy Ghost.Isa.28:11: For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.12: To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
Then Paul writting about the gift of tongues referred to Isa.1 Cor. 14:21:In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.22: Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Paul said here very clearly, with the lips of believers who speak other tongues God will speak to unbelievers and it is a sign to the unbeliever and after all of that they still will not hear God, says the Lord. This is what took place on the Day of Pentecost. Therefore the tongues they spoke in on the day of Pentecost was the gift of tongues

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

This is how I see it - which would mean the Holy Ghost can dwell in you before you speak in tongues. Tongues is just the evidence.

Where does the bible say it's the evidence ?