No it's called a coincidence, but if a pagan goes to the city square and worships his god at 1 AM and you go there at the same time and decide to copy the pagan's tradition of going to the city square and you then induct that tradition into Christianity, you also get your followers to go to the same city square always at 1 AM and teach that all of your followers must also teach future converts the same thing?
Well then, I would say that you are practicing a pagan tradition disguised as a Christian one.
Oh and also, the pagans who regonize their tradition, which you stole from them, have no respect for you.
OK Brother B. I can see where you're coming from on that. But lets take that scenario a step further...
Imagine that, its a thousand years later, and believers in that area have been going to the city square to worship Jesus at 1 am, ... and most of them don't even know the origin of that particular practice (that pagans used to do the same thing), but the Christians do it as unto the Lord....
Then, even if people start coming around and telling the Christians that the 1 am worship practice was copied from pagans, Rom. 14:5-6still applies here... Because they are worshiping Jesus, not pagans!!
As long as they are doing it unto the Lord, I believe it still honors God and is acceptable with God... But if some of the believers felt uncomfortable with the practice (because pagans were the first one's worshiping every 1 am in the city square) then out of personal conviction, if they decide to not do it any more, thats fine too. But they shouldn't judge the other believers and call them pagan worshipers if they are using the occasion to honor the true God of heaven.
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.
Seems like there's a very basic concept here. Not very difficult at all.
__________________ http://endtimeobserver.blogspot.com
Daniel 12:3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever.
OK Brother B. I can see where you're coming from on that. But lets take that scenario a step further...
Imagine that, its a thousand years later, and believers in that area have been going to the city square to worship Jesus at 1 am, ... and most of them don't even know the origin of that particular practice (that pagans used to do the same thing), but the Christians do it as unto the Lord....
Then, even if people start coming around and telling the Christians that the 1 am worship practice was copied from pagans, Rom. 14:5-6still applies here... Because they are worshiping Jesus, not pagans!!
As long as they are doing it unto the Lord, I believe it still honors God and is acceptable with God... But if some of the believers felt uncomfortable with the practice (because pagans were the first one's worshiping every 1 am in the city square) then out of personal conviction, if they decide to not do it any more, thats fine too. But they shouldn't judge the other believers and call them pagan worshipers if they are using the occasion to honor the true God of heaven.
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.
Seems like there's a very basic concept here. Not very difficult at all.
Basic concept? Roman Catholic Church is based on such a concept.
Prayer beads thousands of years old and yet every devout Roman Catholic uses their prayer beads as unto the Lord.
Some Nuns are sincere and very devout and they keep their traditions as unto the Lord.
Lighting of candles, prayers for the dead, and robed clergy.
All pagan traditions that are thousands of years old and were converted to be done unto the Lord.
Does it make it Biblically correct? No, and that is what the thread title is saying and it's pretty easy to understand.
Xmas was hijacked paganism painted up to look like it belonged.
Romans 14 is speaking of not doing pagan traditions to cause your ex-pagan Brother to stumble. You see he gave up fornication with temple prostitutes, and eating things offered to idols, he is the new convert, and now he is watching you indulging in the name of Lord.
He loses his respect for you and your religion, keep in mind that the pagan was told that you had the TRUTH.
All he sees is that your so called truth is, is partial truth cloaked in his old pagan traditions.
We are living in a Internet anti-Christian world in where people have all kinds of information at their fingertips, and we need to presents good solid arguments to those who want answers and not just chestnuts roasting on an open fire.
__________________ "all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
I have yet to meet a single person who is unsaved tell me they have no respect for me because I celebrate Christmas. I have yet to meet a single unchurched person tell me that I'm wrong for celebrating Christmas.
I have, however, met unsaved, unchurched people wonder why there are Christians who refuse to celebrate Christmas for any reason.
One such person, referring to a member of a church I used to attend, told me, "How can you call yourself a Christian if you won't even celebrate the birth of your God?"
I have yet to hear the opposite come out of their mouths.
If judgment comes from anywhere, it comes from those in the church, not out of it. That's too bad.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
With those three words (in bold), the Scripture is fulfilled: ....for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. Mat 12:34
Oh I forgot, keep quite, don't question, be a good little drone. Please...don't look behind the curtian!
OA, I said argument, not fighting, or screaming. Argument is discussion and discussion only. I Bible study right smack in the middle of a Barnes and Nobles book seller cafe. I have been doing it for three years, I have a Rabbi who doesn't believe that Jesus is the messiah and he sits in on Mondays, and everything else you can think of has sat in these Bible studies from time to time over the course of those three years.
I tell those who continue in study with me that they must NEVER lose their cool during a Bible study discussion. These are series of arguments on different positions, and if any one takes it personal or raises their voice they have lost. Argument is good as long as you know what is an argument. I can tell by your comment that you don't know.
I teach that one must continually question and by questioning you get total understanding. The students are told to research and study what I present them.
I have some students that spend hours with me going through the scriptures and it‘s continually back and forth answering questions and making sure everything is clear.
I started this thread by making the statement that Xmas was unbiblical and that in itself was an easy statement.
Meaning that it could only be answered with a “yes” answer.
Since we would like to protect our sacred cows (no pun intended) we never give the yes vote, but continue to keep the discussion going based on our emotions concerning the tradition.
I have personally gone round and round with some on standards and the same people who fight tooth and nail against standards will fight tooth and nail to keep Xmas, which is unbiblical traditions of men.
No discussion, no argument, just on and on about feeding the poor, families getting together, egg nog, and nativity scenes.
If a Brother posts a thread on long uncut hair for women, and no television watch out!
Every year when we discuss the Xmas issue it always goes down the same road, the people who will cry out that the conservatives are teaching unbiblical issues, are the same people who will defend the unbiblical Xmas.
__________________ "all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
I have yet to meet a single person who is unsaved tell me they have no respect for me because I celebrate Christmas. I have yet to meet a single unchurched person tell me that I'm wrong for celebrating Christmas.
I have, however, met unsaved, unchurched people wonder why there are Christians who refuse to celebrate Christmas for any reason.
One such person, referring to a member of a church I used to attend, told me, "How can you call yourself a Christian if you won't even celebrate the birth of your God?"
I have yet to hear the opposite come out of their mouths.
If judgment comes from anywhere, it comes from those in the church, not out of it. That's too bad.
Heavenly One, you have made a very good point here. I can't recall in 34 years of ministry any non-Christian questioning why we Christians celebrate Christmas. And I have lived overseas, and here in Vancouver area we are a very multi-cultural city, yet like you, the only ones I have ever heard address the issue of Christians celebrating Christmas are other Christians.
EB, I asked you this question earlier in the thread, and forgive me if I overlooked your answer, but if you would be so kind as to respond again -
Do you believe this is a salvational issue? If a Christian decorates a tree, exchanges gifts, listens to Christmas carols, etc. do you believe they will go to hell?
BUMP for EB.
__________________ "Many people view their relationship with God like a "color by number" picture. It's easier to let someone else define the boundaries, tell them which blanks to fill in, and what color to use than it is for them to take a blank canvas and seek inspiration from the Source in order to paint their own masterpiece"
I have yet to meet a single person who is unsaved tell me they have no respect for me because I celebrate Christmas. I have yet to meet a single unchurched person tell me that I'm wrong for celebrating Christmas.
I have, however, met unsaved, unchurched people wonder why there are Christians who refuse to celebrate Christmas for any reason.
One such person, referring to a member of a church I used to attend, told me, "How can you call yourself a Christian if you won't even celebrate the birth of your God?"
I have yet to hear the opposite come out of their mouths. thats normal
If judgment comes from anywhere, it comes from those in the church, not out of it. That's too bad.
Soooo....this sounds like she was referring to you not celebrating xmas... Ah-HAH!
The secret is OUT!
YES!! shes come outta the closet!
*wink*
__________________ You can tell more about people
by what they say about others...than by what others
say about them.
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