Sleeping with Uncle Jeff

[tamor]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

................ SHUT UP AND STAY AWAY FROM THIS THREAD!!!

Something like that?

[Hegavmelif]

Originally Posted by The Mrs

What more would we need to know that would change our judgment or opinion of what actually happened to these girls?

Are they lying?

Is the story fabricated?

Why do your statements make it sound like there's some kind of sugar coating/justification in there somewhere???



Sorry if this sounds like I'm comin' out with my guns blazing, but I'm pretty fired up over this right now.

My sentiments as well, Mrs!! There is more to this story. I know most of these people and have know some of them for decades. The bottom line is this...the girls were abused, period! and the minister took up for the the Dr, a.k.a. the man with the money.

People need to wake up to the fact that UPCI is a ministerial association for preachers only and we simply have too many money hungry men gracing our pulpits. This is my honest opinion derived from 50 years of observation.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Pianoman

Whenever there is a "he said - she said" situation, I usually give the benefit of the doubt to the person with the least amount to gain by lying. We all become biased when it's a close friend or loved one involved!

That is very true PM. YOU wise ole owl!

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

I am a counselor and I have went through times that counseling was the only thing that could help. I have met some good ministry that recognize the need for Christian counselors within their churches and also recognize their limitations in this area.

I commend you, I would imagine you have had to fight a lot of bias in the church. We need more mental health professionals in the church!

Originally Posted by Rhoni

As a Bible Cllege graduate, I have to say there were many areas that ministry were lacking that need to be taught in our colleges. One of these is counseling, others are church administration and working with a church board. But this is another 'issue'.

I agree!!! I have a LOT of opinions on that subject!

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Good comments btw.
Blessings, rhoni

Thanks!!!!

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by JaneEyre

Everyone involved in this situation needs prayer. I've worked with victims and perpetrators. No one stands up as an advocate for a perpetrator but you know what? Jesus was shedding His blood and enduring the cross for all of us. Let's pray for everyone mentioned in this news story.

I understand this concept, and conceptually, on a remote basis, I believe this. But this is an issue that I really have to pray about, I know Jesus loves the sinner, period. And I believe that forgiveness is for all, it is just REALLY hard for me to take when someone abuses and takes advantage of the innocence of a child.

[The Mrs]

Originally Posted by dizzyde

I understand this concept, and conceptually, on a remote basis, I believe this. But this is an issue that I really have to pray about, I know Jesus loves the sinner, period. And I believe that forgiveness is for all, it is just REALLY hard for me to take when someone abuses and takes advantage of the innocence of a child.

Yes, I agree...it makes the Mama Bear come out in me...

While I have never been abused or in a situation like these girls, I have to say I can empathize with them on THIS point:

They TRUSTED and LOVED those in authority over them, and put their happiness ahead of their own. They shut up and took it all. Instead of finding support from those who were entrusted to care for them, from those they trusted and loved, they found rebuke.

Like Randee, Ashlyn had turned to self-mutilation. For the last two years of Klem's touching, she'd cut herself with a bobby pin or a nail. She has no clue why she did it. But through tears, she takes a guess.

"It's like it wasn't me," she says. "It wasn't me, it was all the anger held up in me, because I didn't say anything and I needed to, I know I needed to do. And I ignored it because I wanted to make them [Beth, Buck and Patsy] happy...I loved them and I didn't want to hurt them. And I wanted to be mad at myself because I was close to Beth and I let it happen. I trusted her and...she was there almost every time and she could've seen it."

In the end, she lost Beth anyway. And Paw-Paw. And Sweetie.

*bolded emphasis mine*

I have been in the place where my respect for, my love for, and my trust in my 'authority' has kept my mouth shut. I understand what they did, and why.

This is a HUGE problem within UPCI...it's not so little.

It's got an ugly name that nobody likes to admit. It's called spiritual abuse. And it's sickening to me to see. Yet, it runs rampant with nobody doing anything about it.

[StillStanding]

OK! Let's look at motivations to lie!

Uncle

1. Save his reputation
2. Save his license to practice medicine?
3. Save his marriage
4. Stay out of prison

Nieces

1. Jealousy towards the uncle because he's getting all of their Aunt's attention.
2. Coaxed by parents who are jealous of uncle's success.

When you weigh and compare the motivation to lie, the Uncle's weighs more heavy. You really have to believe the girls are evil to believe their motivation to lie.

[Joseph Miller]

Originally Posted by Pianoman

OK! Let's look at motivations to lie!

Uncle

1. Save his reputation
2. Save his license to practice medicine?
3. Save his marriage
4. Stay out of prison

Nieces

1. Jealousy towards the uncle because he's getting all of their Aunt's attention.
2. Coaxed by parents who are jealous of uncle's success.

When you weigh and compare the motivation to lie, the Uncle's weighs more heavy. You really have to believe the girls are evil to believe their motivation to lie.

True. I don't think the girls are lying. If one person says somthing then maybe, but when you have 4 or 5 that have the same story then it is very believeable.

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by The Mrs

Yes, I agree...it makes the Mama Bear come out in me...

While I have never been abused or in a situation like these girls, I have to say I can empathize with them on THIS point:

They TRUSTED and LOVED those in authority over them, and put their happiness ahead of their own. They shut up and took it all. Instead of finding support from those who were entrusted to care for them, from those they trusted and loved, they found rebuke.



*bolded emphasis mine*

I have been in the place where my respect for, my love for, and my trust in my 'authority' has kept my mouth shut. I understand what they did, and why.

This is a HUGE problem within UPCI...it's not so little.

It's got an ugly name that nobody likes to admit. It's called spiritual abuse. And it's sickening to me to see. Yet, it runs rampant with nobody doing anything about it.

I understand what you are saying and I agree for the most part. I have a UPC pastor, and I love the church that I go to, but I think that if the "system" works, it can be affective, but too often the "system" doesn't work, because of ignorance, lack of oversight, or something darker.

[Hegavmelif]

Originally Posted by CC1

You may be right but I have relatives in that church and also a relative that lives somewhere else who was friends with the girls involved and the situation is bad.

I would like to think that some of the Pastors actions have been due to diminished capacity to do with health issues but I really don't know.

I have known about this for a long time. I do know that the part about the pastor siding with the son in law and saying the grandchildren were lying is true and I found that most troubling when I heard it a long time ago and find it just as troubling now.

I hope that I never become so enamored of education, social standing, prestige, etc that it colors my judgement in such a way.

Ditto!