So how can you say he had such "sound doctrine" if so much could go on in his church? If your not teaching anything then what's the point. If the doctrine was sound then the conviction for the life styles people when there to live would be present too.
The statement just gave me a flash back of driving PAST GG every Sunday and of the people that left our church to go there cuz they wanted to do stuff that was not allowed where my mom had us.
well, there you go. maybe there is a reason the son has gone that direction? I think maybe you and I agree, that these that are leaving ought to?
I am praying for the PAW, it has been a great organization and I pray the good men that are left can continue on.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
All this talk about 'no three god' stuff is ridiculous... everyone knows that there is a difference in 'One God' and 'three persons in the godhead' heresy. And, for the record... YES, I've been in a meeting where the preacher was put in the pulpit to address the congregation and started all this puke about 'God the Father told God the son to send the Holy Ghost down there to deliver them!' ignorance.
To say it doesn't happen is an exercise in willfull ignrorance because it does happen. And then to impily the worn out argument 'do you think all Apostolics are right?' is little more than a distraction to an unwinable argument as nobody I know thinks that all Aposotlics are right.
I cherish this truth more than life itself (YES: both New Birth and Separation issues) and can not, with a pure conscience, rejoice at the failure of Apostolics to be Apostolic in every way... especially in our doctrine! Before anybody accuses me of being 'indoctrinated' or 'traditional' I can assure you that I'm a first generation Apostolic Pentecostal who was raised in my Grandparents tavern where I worked as a bouncer until the night I got the Holy Ghost.
My affinity for this message didn't come from heritage or even a home bible study; it came from much study, prayer and fasting. To throw that down to fit in with people who don't even believe the biblical basics of our Apostolic doctrine or to be so weak in my integrity that I would sacrifice truth to fit into crowds that openly reject truth would make me a transgressor of the highest order.
All true Apostolics better come to the understanding that some dwell under the title of 'Apostolic' - both in Churches around the nation and on this forum - that simply aren't.
Funny, I am sure if this was the mid 80's when Bishop (David) Ellis was around this comment would be different. Growing up in Detroit Greater Grace (Ellis' church) is where you went when you wanted some "slack"....on whatever. So I guess opinions change based on the reference. If chucky seems less stringent ok, I dont know, I tend to go to his brothers church when I am in MI, but to say David Ellis was some strong "standard keeper"....yeah, thats funny.
I can't say much about his standards as I didn't get much opportunity to see them. I do know, however, that I have recordings where the man preaches the New Birth doctrine so hard that it would erase ANY question of what he believed.
well, there you go. maybe there is a reason the son has gone that direction? I think maybe you and I agree, that these that are leaving ought to?
I am praying for the PAW, it has been a great organization and I pray the good men that are left can continue on.
If they are leaving because they are truly teaching against the teachings of Jesus, yes they should go. I dont know if I have read anything stating what they have said from thier own mouths...just articles from Chicago and opinions on message boards. If they are truly against the teachings of God, God will not allow His own to be without. They can take thier money and huge congregations and go. God will provide.
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I am going to be better than I am today....(Phil 1:6)
I can't say much about his standards as I didn't get much opportunity to see them. I do know, however, that I have recordings where the man preaches the New Birth doctrine so hard that it would erase ANY question of what he believed.
...and I think it weighs so much heavier when you DO believe, and yet you allow madness to take place in the church you are appointed to lead. Kinda like me....in college I could preach/teach the oneness doctrine in my sleep, but I lived just like everyone else. I wasn't promoting/living what I knew, even though I knew it then as truth....just wanted to shout it loudly to show I was "better".
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I am going to be better than I am today....(Phil 1:6)
I believe it is no coincidence that it was Holiness people that God moved on in the early part of the 20th century.
I agree. I think "holiness" people have a higher consecration and that is why God moves on them. It is not about the specific standards they follow as much as that they are living sacrifices to God.
I had originally talked to someone who goes to Jone's church who told me that he told the congregation that he was leaving the PAW.
I just talked to a PAW Pastor who also confirmed this AND that they are holding a Huge meeting with all the PAW Bishops in Chicago, today as a matter Fact to find out who is staying and who is leaving
shoudl be interesting how this all shakes down. I was told by this pastor that the PAW is about 50/50 split down the middle as far as doctrine. 50% want the old path traditional apostolic teaching. the other 50% want to go mainstream for lack of a better word
They are antiquated - I hope they take the fresh - progressive path!
antiquated in what way? as far as formality ?? If so I would concur at least in my personal opinion. I have gone to many of their conferences and there was just TOO TOO much pomp and praise and adulations for men.
He isn’t going any where. He is our Diocesan Bishop here in Texas. It has been Rumored that Bishop Wagner is leaving for as long as I can remember.
I was giving my opinion on the matter, I still think he is headed out the door.
He has had non-apostolic guests in the past and that is something that is frowned upon.
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