Water baptism, can you agree with this statement?

Originally Posted by Darcie

huh?!?!?!?!? enhances the power of calvary?

Darcie,

Based on your contention that we do damage to the blood of calvary and its power to save because we believe there is a 3 fold application of this blood doesn't make sense.

You say it takes one step... based on your logic, saying that repentance is necessary must do damage to the power of the blood as well.

Your logic demands that the shed blood be effective without any application or participation from man or you are doing damage to the power of the blood. Then you are starting to wander off into universalism as every man is saved because of the power of the blood and NO action on his part... not even believing.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by philjones

Darcie,

Based on your contention that we do damage to the blood of calvary and its power to save because we believe there is a 3 fold application of this blood doesn't make sense.

You say it takes one step... based on your logic, saying that repentance is necessary must do damage to the power of the blood as well.

Your logic demands that the shed blood be effective without any application or participation from man or you are doing damage to the power of the blood. Then you are starting to wander off into universalism as every man is saved because of the power of the blood and NO action on his part... not even believing.

3-Fold application of blood??? We ???? Phil you been around this topic to know that not all of your SACRAMENTALIST BAPTISMAL REGENERATIONIST friends believe the blood is applied at each step ... there is even agreement on when justification or remission happen ...

based on your logic one application isn't enough to wipe our slate clean or to bring us in good standing w/ God.

How many coats will do it?

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Yeah ... that's when a 3 stepper re-enacts His Death ... His Burial ... His Resurrection to Out-Calvary Jesus.

I appreciate your consistency in supplying this view as your principle revelation concerning your POV that teaching water baptism as salvational is error.

Your POV will eventually have to extend to the receipt of the gift of the Holy Ghost (if it does not already).

Your POV teaches that the full and complete work involving our lives in God's salvation provision, is in the act of our saviour and has NO INVOLVEMENT with us in response to this way of escape.

So, he died and was buried.
But your POV proclaims we have no part or role in the deliverance from sin that has been made available by our saviour's death.

Because of this teaching of yours, you consistently contradict any view that teaches that water baptism is our deed of faith (our response to his call) that buries us together with him in the efficacy of his death over our sin.

Ok, if we have no need to be buried with him to be benefactors of his death, how long will it be before you teach that we have no need to be resurrected with him to newness of life?

Afterall, you have consistently advanced that it's just about believing our saviour died, was buried, and rose again.

If a teacher comes along and proclaims that we have no part in his death and his burial, surely that same teacher will at some time, proclaim the unnecessary condition of receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[Nahum]

Blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah.


Here we go round the mulberry bush.

[tbpew]

Good night to all.
This is a home fellowship night for me and my family and I need to make my exit.

Thanks again to all who shared their understanding of the scriptures as it related to Adino's clear, concise statement.

...and thank you Adino for forming the words!

[Raven]

[QUOTE=tbpew;260319]A statement was provided as a concluding sentence in a post offered by Adino in another thread.

I do not take [water] baptism "out of the equation" for proper Christian behavior. I do take it "out of the equation" for salvation before God.

In my Bible College days of 40 years passed I became acquainted with two men named Paul. One was a teacher who's last name was Dugas who some of you will remember of Apostolic Contender fame. The other was the Apostle Paul that I will quote with some assumed liberties. The college teacher Paul taught me that baptism was a circumcision of the heart and had replaced Old Testament circumcision. With this in mind I have substituted baptism for circumcision in the powerful discourse of our good brother Paul in Romans 4.

Rom 4:1-16
4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the baptized only, or upon the non-baptized also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in baptism, or in non-baptism? Not in baptism, but in non-baptism.
11 And he received the sign of baptism, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being non-baptized: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not baptized; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12 And the father of baptism to them who are not of the baptized only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet non-baptized.
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Respectfully
Raven

[SDG]

Originally Posted by tbpew

I appreciate your consistency in supplying this view as your principle revelation concerning your POV that teaching water baptism as salvational is error.

Your POV will eventually have to extend to the receipt of the gift of the Holy Ghost (if it does not already).

Your POV teaches that the full and complete work involving our lives in God's salvation provision, is in the act of our saviour and has NO INVOLVEMENT with us in response to this way of escape.

So, he died and was buried.
But your POV proclaims we have no part or role in the deliverance from sin that has been made available by our saviour's death.

Because of this teaching of yours, you consistently contradict any view that teaches that water baptism is our deed of faith (our response to his call) that buries us together with him in the efficacy of his death over our sin.

Ok, if we have no need to be buried with him to be benefactors of his death, how long will it be before you teach that we have no need to be resurrected with him to newness of life?

Afterall, you have consistently advanced that it's just about believing our saviour died, was buried, and rose again.

If a teacher comes along and proclaims that we have no part in his death and his burial, surely that same teacher will at some time, proclaim the unnecessary condition of receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Here's my POV ....

You got spanked by Pelathais, Adino and myself in the KH Light Doctrine thead ... because of your lack of exegetical know-how

.... the logical, theological, and verbal acrobatics you demonstrated/exposed in said thread were pathetic and feeble at the very least.

and BTW ....We're still waiting on your exegesis of John 3 ... minus the vivid and colorful typologies we are to assume are in the chapter

Your verbosity as a word smith merely hides a lack of substance ... and your marginalization and appeals to authority in this little 3 step love-fest thread ... may embolden your propensity to lash out here... but when your ready to get schooled again ... visit us on the KH Light Doctrine thread.

Lastly, your lack of understanding of the depth, layers and history of this debate on this forum and for the last century among Oneness Pentecostals was exposed in this last post.

[pelathais]

I want my cake and I want to eat it as well. It is neither "Yes" nor "No" for me. I would probably take everything off topic in trying to explain why again, so suffice it to say I choose neither of the offered selections.

I do agree that salvation comes through faith and even our very best efforts to re-enact Calvary will not get us "saved." We are are saved by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves, it is the gift of God.

That being said, the efficacy of the gift of grace will be manifest in the lives of the believers, including their obedience to the NT teachings, not limited to baptism.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I want my cake and I want to eat it as well. It is neither "Yes" nor "No" for me. I would probably take everything off topic in trying to explain why again, so suffice it to say I choose neither of the offered selections.

I do agree that salvation comes through faith and even our very best efforts to re-enact Calvary will not get us "saved." We are are saved by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves, it is the gift of God.

That being said, the efficacy of the gift of grace will be manifest in the lives of the believers, including their obedience to the NT teachings, not limited to baptism.

I agree 100% with your post ... looks like your caveat qualifies you as a yes.

[Rhoni]

I voted "NO". Baptism is essential to salvation. One must be born of the water and the spirit to enter into the kingdom of God. John 3. It is just a Christian thing to do if you are kind to those who disagree with you!

Blessings, Rhoni