I think the church is different than civil government. Roman government was nothing close to a democracy. The church was powerless to halt any execution, and in fact willingly laid their own lives on the line because of their beliefs.
Was the Roman government God-ordained? Was Paul, aka Saul, justified in his evil treatment of Christians? Were the Christians worthy of death simply because an evil government chose to execute them?
Nowhere in the NT does the church assert a right to kill those who are evil. No, the church chose a different method of dealing with the wicked - they converted them.
Maybe instead of trying to enforce morality through legislation, we should actually live godly, mercifully, and be witnesses to the godless.
Explain what you mean please. i don't clearly see the point that you are making with this post.
The Bible says in Romans 12:19 "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord."
You recall the scriptures (as far as I can tell from your post) that reside in the very next chapter that say...
Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
You then ask if Paul was contradicting God...
Could you explain the contradiction you see?
I assume this contradiction is with someones interpretation etc... not trying to be problematic... I just currently do not see clearly what you are saying.
Thanks.
I was trying to contrast Bennys post on "vengance is mine sayth the Lord" to what Paul wrote in Romans 13 where God appoints rulers to bear the sword as a revenger to bring wrath on evil doers.
__________________
Psa 119:165 (KJV) 165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.
"Do not believe everthing you read on the internet" - Abe Lincoln
I think the church is different than civil government. Roman government was nothing close to a democracy. The church was powerless to halt any execution, and in fact willingly laid their own lives on the line because of their beliefs..
I guess I didn't think we were discussing church government.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Poster
Was the Roman government God-ordained? Was Paul, aka Saul, justified in his evil treatment of Christians? Were the Christians worthy of death simply because an evil government chose to execute them?..
If it wasn't then is Romans 13 inaccurate? Is God sovereign and in control? Does He allow bad things to happen on earth as a part of His eternal plan?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Poster
Nowhere in the NT does the church assert a right to kill those who are evil. No, the church chose a different method of dealing with the wicked - they converted them.
I was assuming we were talking human government not the Church. Of course our job as the Church is to first try and convert. If I didn't believe that then I wouldn't be involved in prison ministry. I'm trying to reach guys before they go past the point of life and death in the justice system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Poster
Maybe instead of trying to enforce morality through legislation, we should actually live godly, mercifully, and be witnesses to the godless..
I think we agree that there is no "maybe" about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Poster
Killing people seals their eternal damnation.
Wrong individual actions and decisions seal a persons eternal damnation.
__________________
Psa 119:165 (KJV) 165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.
"Do not believe everthing you read on the internet" - Abe Lincoln
Do you feel the same way towards those governments who kill people for converting to Christianity. You feel that that they are ordained by God and should be respected, obeyed and submitted to as such...
Just asking... not trying to challenge you.
God is sovereign. He builds up and tears down. Everything that happens in this life work for the good of those the Love the Lord and are called according to His purpose. That doesn't mean everything that happens in the world is going to be, as my son says, "All rainbows and ponies".
Would you consider it disrespectful and disobedient of Daniel and his three buddies to go against the wishes of the King and not eat what was served or not bow to what was built, or not pray to The God?
Do you think this country was founded contrary to God's will?
__________________
Psa 119:165 (KJV) 165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.
"Do not believe everthing you read on the internet" - Abe Lincoln
I accidently posted this on another thread (I must have been in space at the time lol)
I believe your original question dealt with the death penalty under the NT dispensation of grace. In this scripture; 1 Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, The Apostle Paul indicates that the law is for the lawless. IMHO those that commit crimes punishable by death are under the law and therefore are candidates for any punishment rendered under the law.
I accidently posted this on another thread (I must have been in space at the time lol)
I believe your original question dealt with the death penalty under the NT dispensation of grace. In this scripture; 1 Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, The Apostle Paul indicates that the law is for the lawless. IMHO those that commit crimes punishable by death are under the law and therefore are candidates for any punishment rendered under the law.
Well stated.
__________________
Psa 119:165 (KJV) 165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.
"Do not believe everthing you read on the internet" - Abe Lincoln
Do you think this country was founded contrary to God's will?
Since this nation is considered a Christian nation that wouldn't seem to be the hard question.
The hard question would seem to be....
Do you think Muslim nations are founded contrary to God's will and do you think that Christians living in Muslim nations are to always have the following verses in mind when it comes to the higher powers of those nations...
Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Linear Mode
