***Bombshell: ALJC vs. NCO Battle Royale: The NCO/AWCF strike back ***

[SDG]

Recently, the ALJC, the Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ, published an article entitled "New Church Order?" [unsure] in their official organ, The Apostolic Witness. It was written by a Rev. Vasques who took shots at the newly formed NCO.

I am trying to secure a copy of this original article to add to this thead.

However, the AWCF and NCO have issued a rebuttal to the Vasquez ALJC article and have posted it on the AWCF website. I'm sure it will be posted on the NCO website shortly.

The rebuttal has been written by a lawyer and friend, Esq. James Griffin.

Here is his short piece:

The Spirit of Diotrephes
by James Griffin

The fellowship of the New Church Order is less than a year old and yet has already become an international fellowship with hundreds of pastors around the globe. The NCO has placed itself under the umbrella of the Apostolic World Christian Fellowship and been endorsed by its leadership including the Bishop Samuel Smith. Unfortunately, as often happens in such cases a Spirit of Diotrephes has raised in opposition.

Diotrephes’ entire story is told in two verses; 3 John 9-10. The Apostle John was suffering personal and malicious attacks by Diotrephes, who had even started throwing people out of the church who dared to question him. It warrants slowing down at this point and re-emphasizing just whom he was criticizing. THE Apostle John, the beloved disciple of Jesus Christ, indeed one of the three of His inner circle, author of five books of the New Testament including its only book of prophecy.

In a similar spirit there have been some persons of influence within their denominations who have maliciously slandered the NCO and thereby not only questioned the doctrine and character of its founders, Bishop Kenneth Phillips, Dr Wendell Hutchins, and Prophet Jonathan Suber, but by proxy also questioned the judgment of the august elders of the AWCF, including Bishop Samuel Smith. Not content to stop at oral attacks one leader even submitted an article to the official organ of his denomination, (which was published without attempt to verify the facts), thereby prompting this response.

This article actually accused ministers of the NCO of somehow simultaneously promoting the incompatible doctrines of Latter Rain and New Age, all without a single quote or verifiable reason given.

The New Church Order from its inception has stated its roots in and adherence to Classical Apostolic Doctrine. It is merely a change in paradigm of church governance and methodology. Namely a confederation of like minded ministers who seek to escape the isolationist, elitist, and authoritarian mentality which seems to permeate so many denominations and their leadership.

The author went on to insinuate that the leadership of the NCO eschewed Paul’s call to modesty. Ironically enough in the entire article the author never gave a single example of which Biblical standards had been abandoned nor did he himself care to enumerate these “standards of modesty.”

While the gospel is immutable and eternal, each generation, indeed to a degree each individual must define modesty. Even the Apostle Paul recognized that it is entirely possible for the exact same act to be sin to other person and yet not another. Modesty is and always shall be to some degree culturally relative. For example there are parts of the world where the average American “holiness Pentecostal” female would be considered a shameless hussy for daring to go out in public with her hair uncovered and legs exposed below the knee.

On the other hand there are certain acts and spirits which have always been and always shall be sin. One of the chief, which God Himself calls an abomination is “he who sows discord among the brethren,” indeed one of the original Ten Commandments is “thou shalt not bear false witness”. To maliciously spread falsehoods and slander; to openly oppose proven Apostolic leadership rises to that level.

Such a spirit of Diotrephes whether propagated by ignorance or as a means of personal political gain needs to be recognized for what it is, sin. There is no better way to serve the enemy than for the unbeliever to see such vicious and unwarranted infighting with the Bride.

Perhaps such brethren would be better served praying and seeking God for ways to bring unity to the body of Christ? Who knows how many more millions would have been reached over past decades if the resources wasted by such arguments and articles had instead been channeled toward reaching the lost.

http://www.awcf.org/guestarticle.html

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Recently, the ALJC, the Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ, published an article entitled "New Church Order?" in their official organ, The Apostolic Witness. It was written by a Rev. Vasques who took shots at the newly formed NCO.

I am trying to secure a copy of this original article to add to this thead.

However, the AWCF and NCO have issued a rebuttal to the Vasquez ALJC article and have posted it on the AWCF website. I'm sure it will be posted on the NCO website shortly.

The rebuttal has been written by a lawyer and friend, Esq. James Griffin.

Here is his short piece:

The Spirit of Diotrephes
by James Griffin

The fellowship of the New Church Order is less than a year old and yet has already become an international fellowship with hundreds of pastors around the globe. The NCO has placed itself under the umbrella of the Apostolic World Christian Fellowship and been endorsed by its leadership including the Bishop Samuel Smith. Unfortunately, as often happens in such cases a Spirit of Diotrephes has raised in opposition.

Diotrephes’ entire story is told in two verses; 3 John 9-10. The Apostle John was suffering personal and malicious attacks by Diotrephes, who had even started throwing people out of the church who dared to question him. It warrants slowing down at this point and re-emphasizing just whom he was criticizing. THE Apostle John, the beloved disciple of Jesus Christ, indeed one of the three of His inner circle, author of five books of the New Testament including its only book of prophecy.

In a similar spirit there have been some persons of influence within their denominations who have maliciously slandered the NCO and thereby not only questioned the doctrine and character of its founders, Bishop Kenneth Phillips, Dr Wendell Hutchins, and Prophet Jonathan Suber, but by proxy also questioned the judgment of the august elders of the AWCF, including Bishop Samuel Smith. Not content to stop at oral attacks one leader even submitted an article to the official organ of his denomination, (which was published without attempt to verify the facts), thereby prompting this response.

This article actually accused ministers of the NCO of somehow simultaneously promoting the incompatible doctrines of Latter Rain and New Age, all without a single quote or verifiable reason given.

The New Church Order from its inception has stated its roots in and adherence to Classical Apostolic Doctrine. It is merely a change in paradigm of church governance and methodology. Namely a confederation of like minded ministers who seek to escape the isolationist, elitist, and authoritarian mentality which seems to permeate so many denominations and their leadership.

The author went on to insinuate that the leadership of the NCO eschewed Paul’s call to modesty. Ironically enough in the entire article the author never gave a single example of which Biblical standards had been abandoned nor did he himself care to enumerate these “standards of modesty.”

While the gospel is immutable and eternal, each generation, indeed to a degree each individual must define modesty. Even the Apostle Paul recognized that it is entirely possible for the exact same act to be sin to other person and yet not another. Modesty is and always shall be to some degree culturally relative. For example there are parts of the world where the average American “holiness Pentecostal” female would be considered a shameless hussy for daring to go out in public with her hair uncovered and legs exposed below the knee.

On the other hand there are certain acts and spirits which have always been and always shall be sin. One of the chief, which God Himself calls an abomination is “he who sows discord among the brethren,” indeed one of the original Ten Commandments is “thou shalt not bear false witness”. To maliciously spread falsehoods and slander; to openly oppose proven Apostolic leadership rises to that level.

Such a spirit of Diotrephes whether propagated by ignorance or as a means of personal political gain needs to be recognized for what it is, sin. There is no better way to serve the enemy than for the unbeliever to see such vicious and unwarranted infighting with the Bride.

Perhaps such brethren would be better served praying and seeking God for ways to bring unity to the body of Christ? Who knows how many more millions would have been reached over past decades if the resources wasted by such arguments and articles had instead been channeled toward reaching the lost.

http://www.awcf.org/guestarticle.html

I know Bro. John Vasquez. He is an interesting gentlemen. I am surprised at what you are saying he wrote.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

I know Bro. John Vasquez. He is an interesting gentlemen. I am surprised at what you are saying he wrote.

I am more surprised that this original article would be sanctioned and published by the official organ of the ALJC fellowship. There must be political pressures for them to make such a decision.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

I am more surprised that this original article would be sanctioned and published by the official organ of the ALJC fellowship. There must be political pressures for them to make such a decision.

Not too sure really. The truth is the ALJC is much like the UPCI on some things. If a person/organization like NCO/AWCF takes a stand against legalism and such the ALJC and UPCI come out with their fists up ready to fight. I know there were some ALJC people that were against the "Passion" movie. I know some UPCI churches that showed the movie on their big screens over the platform. Some I am sure that the unknown or the new thing is always going to be resisted by those that do not know the details.

[bdlooney]

I don't think that anyone can adequately post concerning the topic until we have the other side of the story. It would be great to have the ALJC article posted here, if possible.

[Papabear]

The New Age assertion revolves around them accepting Teklamarian and his Divine Flesh Doctrine.

The Latter rain, comment I believe revolves around an old Doctrine that is associated with the AWCF. Someone told me it was the Adam Doctrine. This is sketchy, but what I was told is the founder or someone close to him and many accepted that Adam was Christ. Adam came back to redeem himself.

? Can't say. The point I believe the ALJC article is making is they have chosen to associate based on a Technology Issue than really considering the consequences of Doctrine. I would agree with that, if that is in fact the point of the ALJC article.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Papabear

The New Age assertion revolves around them accepting Teklamarian and his Divine Flesh Doctrine.

The Latter rain, comment I believe revolves around an old Doctrine that is associated with the AWCF. Someone told me it was the Adam Doctrine. This is sketchy, but what I was told is the founder or someone close to him and many accepted that Adam was Christ. Adam came back to redeem himself.

? Can't say. The point I believe the ALJC article is making is they have chosen to associate based on a Technology Issue than really considering the consequences of Doctrine. I would agree with that, if that is in fact the point of the ALJC article.

I asked brother Griffin if the ALJC article spoke on Divine Flesh ... he said it didn't ... he felt that author threw out the new age accusation based on the NCO's name and it's emphasis on post-denominationalism.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by bdlooney

I don't think that anyone can adequately post concerning the topic until we have the other side of the story. It would be great to have the ALJC article posted here, if possible.

I'm working on getting the article.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Papabear

The New Age assertion revolves around them accepting Teklamarian and his Divine Flesh Doctrine.

The Latter rain, comment I believe revolves around an old Doctrine that is associated with the AWCF. Someone told me it was the Adam Doctrine. This is sketchy, but what I was told is the founder or someone close to him and many accepted that Adam was Christ. Adam came back to redeem himself.

? Can't say. The point I believe the ALJC article is making is they have chosen to associate based on a Technology Issue than really considering the consequences of Doctrine. I would agree with that, if that is in fact the point of the ALJC article.

I believe the first Bishop of the AWCF was a proponent of the Adam Doctrine. Brother Epley knows who his name.

[bishoph]

Bishop W.G. Rowe was the founder. This is the first that I have heard of him supporting the "Adam" doctrine. His Father actually was a proponent of the Serpent Seed doctrine and as a result his sons were blackballed even though they vehemently denied belief in said doctrine.