Serious Pants/ Skirts Question... Not Trying to Debate... Thanks!

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Newman

Makes you wonder...

Makes you wonder what Newman? Whether KC wants a broad readership to have the greatest impact? Yup.

[Newman]

IMPACT??? Now that is an interesting word. Status quo doeth not impact make.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Newman

IMPACT??? Now that is an interesting word. Status quo doeth not impact make.

Impact may not be in this one piece - it may simply be street cred to boost the 90&9 rep.

Even the Wall Street Journal will run a Patrick Buchanan piece from time to time.

Sometimes it's the readership's response that makes the impact...

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

I am pasting the article in it's entirity and folks can check it out for themselves.

I bolded the part that seems the most troubling to me. The rest of the content is somewhat beneficial.

Of Sex and Shamefacedness: Women—Beware!September 10, 2007

By Carol P. Clemans




A husband who was a deacon in the church looked at me in a counseling session with his wife regarding his addiction to pornography and said, “Why do I have to have the same temptations at church as I do on the job? Do I have to come to church with my eyes shut?” He went on to explain that in operating his business, he has to deal with women in the world who dress exposing more of their bodies than necessary. When he comes to church, there are some women who dress in clothes that are too tight and too short.




For many years I have had to counsel men who want to be set free from the addiction of pornography.1 For many of them, the addiction started in their preteen years through exposure to the wrong type of magazines and similar situations. One 20 minute exposure to porn has the power to create an addiction. The picture is imprinted on their brain. The more exposures, the more pictures are imprinted and the worse the addiction.

If self-gratification takes place while looking at porn, then a chemical ‘high’ is produced in the brain. This repeated activity leads to the horrible hold of addiction to pornography. In actuality, it’s a production of an internal chemical addiction. Dr. James Dobson and others say that it is the most difficult addiction to overcome.




A Woman’s Responsibility

Holy Ghost-filled women need to understand that tight clothes, short skirts, or dresses that are barely to the knees and slits up the side of their longer tight skirts are a stumbling block to men. God created men to be visual in their natural attraction to the opposite sex. God did not create women in the same fashion. Most women look at men and may wonder how they could emotionally attach to this man. Most men look at women and sexual thoughts can immediately occur.




Remember, before the choice to sin in the garden, sexual desires would not have created a problem. Yet the devil has taken the gift of sex that God gave to the human race, and he has brought destruction to many souls through selfish sexual desires that were not in God’s original design.




Looking Through a Man’s Eyes

Since I have become much more aware of how men see things, I have begun to try to see things from a man’s perspective. Watching women praise singers on the platform with tight, too short clothes, moving with the music, is a major distraction for men. If a woman sits on the platform, her dress should come at least to mid-calf when sitting with knees together and legs uncrossed. Whether sitting or standing, the less exposure of bare skin head to toe and the looser the clothes, the less tempting it is to look and lust.




My personal Holy Ghost dress standard has always been not too tight, below the knee (close to mid-calf or below) and not too low-necked. A wife can be as sexually free with her husband in private as she wants, but she should not flaunt her sexuality to attract other men. If clothes are made from a thin material, a slip needs to be worn. Always look in the mirror before leaving home, and ask yourself how God would respond to the way you are dressed.




What’s Shamefacedness?

Paul wrote, “In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness” (I Timothy 2:9).




Shamefacedness has to do with purity of heart. The commentary from the Life in the Spirit Study Bible says, “(1) Modesty involves dressing in such a way as not to draw attention to the body or to cross the boundaries of proper reserve. The source of modesty is one’s heart of inner character; i.e., modesty is the outward manifestation of an inward purity. (2) Dressing in such a way as to stimulate impure thoughts or desires in others is as wrong as the lust it provokes. No activity or circumstance justifies the wearing of immodest attire that would expose the body in such a way as to stimulate lust in someone else. (3) . . . In a day of sexual permissiveness, the church should act and dress differently from a corrupt society that throws aside and ridicules the Spirit’s desire for modesty, purity, and godly restraint.”




A woman of God can be the victim of her husband’s sexual addictions. It destroys marriages and families. All women who love the Lord need to have a commitment with God not to be a source of sexual temptation in dress or actions. We need to teach our daughters (and peers) how to dress modestly and to respect themselves. This is the first step in sexual purity at all levels. (Suggested reading list below.)




Women, let each of us be strong in the Lord with our commitment to promote sexual purity through our appearance and conduct. God will bless our efforts with success.




ninetyandnine.com




© 2007, Carol Clemans




--------

Carol Clemans is a certified pastoral counselor and provides a teaching and counseling ministry for her pastor Dan Batchelor in Dupo, Illinois, and other churches nationwide.




Footnotes

1. I am not blaming the way women dress as the cause of men being addicted to pornography. Every man is responsible to God for his addiction and cannot lay blame on others. However, as women of God, we must be responsible to God for how we dress so we do not compound the problem for men who want to be overcomers!




Reading List
All men and women need to read the following books, as all are based on biblical truths of how to overcome sexual sins and to help people to heal from addictions:




Every Man’s Battle by Stephen Arterburn/Fred Stoeker w/Mike Yorkey

Breaking Free by Russell Willingham

Every Heart Restored by Stephen Arterburn/Fred & Brenda Stoeker w/Mike Yorkey

Every Man’s Marriage by Stephen Arterburn/Fred Stoeker

Beneath the Surface by Bob Reccord




Focus on the Family also has a specific website that provides information and help for people who battle sexual addictions.

Excellent post! We had Sis. Clemans at our church about 3 weeks. She spoke to our youth and we also variety of ages there as well - no children under 11. Everyone enjoyed what she had to say.

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Sissy

Excellent post! We had Sis. Clemans at our church about 3 weeks. She spoke to our youth and we also variety of ages there as well - no children under 11. Everyone enjoyed what she had to say.

And the topic was women's clothing? Sure seems like the fast track to speaking doesn't it?

I wonder how Jesus could have missed such a hot topic.... Not one iota was said about woman's responsibility to dress modestly lest her brother be tempted. Nada.

Even Peter and Paul's mention of modesty was in the context of economic wealth rather than modesty as most in the church would define it today. But why let the facts get in the way?

[stmatthew]

I am thinking of coming out with a doctrine called "Magic Uncut Underarm Hair", or MUUH for short. I can't wait to see how it catches on.

[Sarah]

Originally Posted by Newman

Umm... I apoligize for misconstruing your comment. As I noted in my post; I was really most agitated by the ninety and nine article. Your post was the launching pad and only bore lukewarm resemblence to the post that I ended up writing. I should have made that more clear.

I find it extremely hard to believe that any Holy Ghost filled woman would disagree or become agitated with that article.

Jesus said if a man looks upon a woman and lusts after her, he has committed adultry already in his heart. Doesn't common sense, if not the spirit of God, tell us that we can do our part to see that that doesn't happen?

Most women know, in church and out, the affect they can have on men. And most of the time, we have it in our power to do something about it.

[Subdued]

Originally Posted by Sarah

I find it extremely hard to believe that any Holy Ghost filled woman would disagree or become agitated with that article.

Jesus said if a man looks upon a woman and lusts after her, he has committed adultry already in his heart. Doesn't common sense, if not the spirit of God, tell us that we can do our part to see that that doesn't happen?

Most women know, in church and out, the affect they can have on men. And most of the time, we have it in our power to do something about it.

I guess all the poor, weak men have no responsibility to keep their hearts and minds pure. They just don't have it in them.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Sarah

I find it extremely hard to believe that any Holy Ghost filled woman would disagree or become agitated with that article.

Jesus said if a man looks upon a woman and lusts after her, he has committed adultry already in his heart. Doesn't common sense, if not the spirit of God, tell us that we can do our part to see that that doesn't happen?

Most women know, in church and out, the affect they can have on men. And most of the time, we have it in our power to do something about it.

I agree that women have to maintain a sense of propriety. For Holy Ghost filled women, it should be a given.

But to blame women in the Church for a man's lustful eye is incorrect thinking.

"Do our part to see that this doesn't happen?!" For some men, it would happen if a woman was covered in burlap...it's the content of the heart where the problem lies.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by BobDylan

Please understand that I am not trying to stir the proverbial pot here. I have a sincere question that I am trying to find the answer to.

Consider the hypothetical: A person, say a baptist preacher somewhere in the US where there is no OP church etc..., is studying the bible, and seeking God in prayer. During this time of seeking God, he discovers the truth of Jesus name baptism, Holy Ghost infilling and tongues, and the oneness of God. Now in trying to please God, and studying the scriptures for more truth, this baptist (formerly baptist) minister stumbles across Deut 22:5. In his study, and considering society of the last 30 years (say this pastor is @ 30 years old), he is trying to find a way to apply gender distinction in dress in a way that is relevant for today. In the society he has grown up in, both women and man wear pants. So in his study he DOES NOT come to the same conclusions regarding pants/skirts that traditional OP's adhere to. Is this person's position acceptible in the sight of God? He is now teaching his congregation and baptizing them in Jesus name, teaching them to seek the Holy Ghost, and is teaching them to lead a seperated life, but he simply has not come to the same conclusion as OP's regarding pants/skirts. Is this a tenable positions for this "baptist" minister? Can he maintain this position and still be acceptible in the sight of God?

This discussion of women and pants is a 'Round Robin' discussion that will never end.

No matter how convincing the arguments are on either side, we are NOT going to convince the other that they are wrong.