Why You Should Vote IN FAVOR of Resolution 4

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher

To say that I won't be affected is simply not true. I live in a metropolitan area. The church down the street may choose to use television. Furthermore, I fully expect that Headquarters will be using it. I can imagine there will be commercials for the various departments (especially "Compassion Services" from the FMD). When I win a person to God and eventually deal with the television issue, how will they respond, knowing my neighboring fellow-UPC pastor uses it and/or my own organizational headquarters uses it? I simply cannot accept a statement that it "won't affect me at all."

Of course it will, IF I remain in the UPC. If, on the other hand, I win someone, preach against television, and they come to me with "the church down the road uses it" or "UPCI Headquarters uses it," I can calmly explain that, while there are similarities, I am NOT a member of the UPCI. There will be no "guilt by association."

Can't you just explain that you don't fellowship the church down the road because they use TV ads? You could explain that you have strong personal convictions against TV.

What's the difference in explaining that and explaining about other independant Apostolic churches in your area that are using TV? You will still have to explain that you believe the same basic doctrine, but you have differences of opinion on the use of TV.

You would leave an organization that you love because of a hypothetical situation that would probably NEVER happen?

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher

To say that I won't be affected is simply not true. I live in a metropolitan area. The church down the street may choose to use television. Furthermore, I fully expect that Headquarters will be using it. I can imagine there will be commercials for the various departments (especially "Compassion Services" from the FMD). When I win a person to God and eventually deal with the television issue, how will they respond, knowing my neighboring fellow-UPC pastor uses it and/or my own organizational headquarters uses it? I simply cannot accept a statement that it "won't affect me at all."

Of course it will, IF I remain in the UPC. If, on the other hand, I win someone, preach against television, and they come to me with "the church down the road uses it" or "UPCI Headquarters uses it," I can calmly explain that, while there are similarities, I am NOT a member of the UPCI. There will be no "guilt by association."

But Bro. KP sir.......

The church down the street or road or in the next town may allow things that you don't in other regards as far as standards go and beyond that. We're well acquainted with ........

"Well the church across town doesn't take that position" or "That pastor allows his congregation to do such and such. Why are you so unreasonable?" LOL!

So you just say as we've had to in the past, "Well we don't do it here because we are uncomfortable with it or don't believe it (or whatever fits the particular situation)". This is very easy to deal with really.

Not trying to influence or change your thinking. You have a right to your convictions and persuasions. But I just don't see that the argument you present is very compelling is all.

[Felicity]

I have a question been wondering about this ......


Why was there not a greater response to the TV survey?

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by Felicity

I have a question been wondering about this ......


Why was there not a greater response to the TV survey?

Also.....Will DECEASED preachers be voting?

[OP_Carl]

Originally Posted by Felicity

I have a question been wondering about this ......


Why was there not a greater response to the TV survey?

Seinfeld re-runs.

[Hoovie]

There are churches that preach wine/no wine, long sleeves, no rodeos, Six Flags and no rings/rings also... KP or others... how do you deal with these? And why is raising funds for Compassion Services International on TV any different?

I only see this as a real problem if one preaches these who see things differently are hellbound... in which case there are deeper issues to be delt with.

[BobDylan]

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher

There are a couple of things that influence "the mentality" of "pulling out if TV passes," even though "there are ALREADY things that UPC does and allows that conservative men have been against for years." One is simply the old "straw that breaks the camel's back" concept. While you are correct that conservatives oppose MANY things allowed by what appears to be the majority of UPC ministers, there comes a time in which a line must be drawn and individual says, "enough is enough." If there is not SOME line, then gradualism will cause us to accept ANYTHING that comes down the pike.

The second factor is based upon personal experience. I was a relatively new convert when this issue was first discussed (and dismissed by a majority of the brethren). I had just been to a youth camp at which one of the major proponents of TV usage had been the speaker. I came back with an overwhelming sense of admiration and appreciation for his preaching. Then, I received from a backslider informing me that he had just seen the preacher in question on television. I did everything but call him a liar. When the conversation was over, I called my pastor who confirmed the story. I was literally distraught. (I was only 14 years at the time.) I sat down and wrote the man a letter. (He did not respond, however. He chose to ask his secretary to write a response instead.)

Had the UPC decided to allow the use of television in the 1970's, I would NOT have sought to be licensed with them. I joined this organization understanding that it was opposed to the use of television. If they change that stand, then they cease to be the same in substance as they were when I was licensed in 1982.

These are some of the reasons that I will allow my license to lapse if the resolution passes. It is not about being "judgmental" or "holier-than-thou." It is not about "taking my toys and going home" because "I didn't get my way." It is merely a matter of principle for me. I will not go out with a bad attitude. I will not spend my time railing on the organization. I will just sadly walk away, feeling that the UPC has left me, not vice-versa.

I hope that helps to clarify the stand of a number of men, including myself.

Very well said elder, thank you for the clarification.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

Seinfeld re-runs.

Ha! (And that should be Seinfeld -- a program that never interested me in the least btw -- for what it's worth. Hehe. )

Do you think that there's a fair degree of apathy regarding the issue? I just can't understand UPCI licensed ministers and pastors not responding to a very simple survey if they're in the least bit interested and want their "voice" to be heard.

And it stands to reason that those who have a strong opinion either way either "yes" or "no" are going to respond for sure.

So I'm just thinking about this and wondering why so little response to what seems, from what we're reading on this forum anyhow, is such a huge issue?

[OP_Carl]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

There are churches that preach wine/no wine, long sleeves, no rodeos, Six Flags and no rings/rings also... KP or others... how do you deal with these?

send the blighters straight to hell
set the dial to 'medium-well.'
send the devil my regards
he gets them all that play with cards

Hypothetically speaking, of course.

And why is raising funds for compassion Services International any different?

It's a "TRUST" thing.

I only see this as a real problem if one preaches these who see things differently are hellbound... in which case there are deeper issues to be delt with.

That's right! - Hell is deep! And it'll be FULL TO THE BRIM of reprobates, heatherns, sinners, people that don't use turn signals, and anybody that doesn't agree WITH EVERY LAST ONE OF MY OPINIONS

[chseeads]

Originally Posted by Felicity

I have a question been wondering about this ......


Why was there not a greater response to the TV survey?

Cause some people don't care it and makes no difference to them.