I followed you Twispy. This particular kind of case with the abuse of authority and all that was involved, tends to bring out the indignation in all of us.
The individual in the news story rightly deserves to be vilified. Our hypotheticals and attempts to apply any lessons from this case are hindered by the heinous nature of the crimes involved.
First off, I'm already on the record for being against using the unrepentant sinner in question here. However, from a hypothetical standpoint - can someone "go too far" and forever disqualify themselves?
In the case of Paul the apostle, here was a guy who was actually responsible for the deaths of Christians. Putting yourself into the 1ST Century church and hearing that he was going to be at Sunday School next week, would you take your children to Sunday Scool next week?
Would you feel comfortable introducing him to another congregation, thus perhaps jeopardizing their safety? Barnabas took a real risk in befriending Paul, not only did he put his personal safety at stake - he faced possibly being ostracized by the whole Christian community.
Paul didn't murder people in secret, so while I'm sure some were pretty scared at first, I believe it was seen quickly that God had changed him, especially since there were witnesses as to his conversion.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
First off, I'm already on the record for being against using the unrepentant sinner in question here. However, from a hypothetical standpoint - can someone "go too far" and forever disqualify themselves?
In the case of Paul the apostle, here was a guy who was actually responsible for the deaths of Christians. Putting yourself into the 1ST Century church and hearing that he was going to be at Sunday School next week, would you take your children to Sunday Scool next week?
Would you feel comfortable introducing him to another congregation, thus perhaps jeopardizing their safety? Barnabas took a real risk in befriending Paul, not only did he put his personal safety at stake - he faced possibly being ostracized by the whole Christian community.
Yes, they had issue with having Paul among them. I always wondered if any thought he was just there to gather names for later persecution. But the issue with Paul is that he did what he did because of IGNORANCE.
1 Timothy 1:12-13
(12) And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
(13) Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
There is NO WAY the preacher in question did what he did through ignorance. This makes his case MUCH different! And, consequently, disqualifies him from his pastoral position and calling.
1 Timothy 3:1-7
(1) This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
(2) A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
(3) Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
(4) One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
(5) (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
(6) Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
(7) Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
This man completely disqualified himself from meeting these criteria when he sinned in the manner he did. This does not mean he cannot be saved, just that he can no longer serve in the calling of a pastor or a preacher.
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The Bible is open to those that want Truth, and if they want Truth, they find Truth. They watch individuals squabble over Bible symbolism on the Internet, and leave the Message boards to enter into the real world where live people dwell, and they find Truth. The World Wide Web is full of Internet Ayatollahs who speak their mind. There is only one Truth, and it is not hidden. No matter what anyone says, Truth still converts the sincere. -DD Benincasa, 12/06/03
A murderer can be trusted. At least you know what to expect of him.
That makes no sense. Per you, you can trust a murderer because you know he will murder. It would stand to reason that you would also trust a child molester because he molests. I believe you reasoning that you at least know what a murderer would do, but you could apply that to this man as well. Doesn't make a lot of sense.
Yes, they had issue with having Paul among them. I always wondered if any thought he was just there to gather names for later persecution. But the issue with Paul is that he did what he did because of IGNORANCE.
1 Timothy 1:12-13
(12) And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
(13) Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
There is NO WAY the preacher in question did what he did through ignorance. This makes his case MUCH different! And, consequently, disqualifies him from his pastoral position and calling.
1 Timothy 3:1-7
(1) This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
(2) A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
(3) Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
(4) One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
(5) (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
(6) Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
(7) Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
This man completely disqualified himself from meeting these criteria when he sinned in the manner he did. This does not mean he cannot be saved, just that he can no longer serve in the calling of a pastor or a preacher.
If you want to get technical, Paul disqualified himself by writing those verses also.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
That makes no sense. Per you, you can trust a murderer because you know he will murder. It would stand to reason that you would also trust a child molester because he molests. I believe you reasoning that you at least know what a murderer would do, but you could apply that to this man as well. Doesn't make a lot of sense.
I have yet to know of a child molester who openly did his deeds. Many murderers don't care who sees them, and Paul was one of those kinds of people.
But I understand why you said what you said.
To go further, when a murderer gets saved, we can safely put him in a crowd without fear nor worry. The trust factor as to whether or not he will pull out a knife or gun at any moment isn't an issue.
And yes, I believe that child molesters can get saved and are saved all the time, but we don't put them in a crowd of children without fear nor worry, do we?
With the exception of serial killers, people who murder do so for a reason (even if we don't think it's a legitimate reason). Child molesters don't really care who the victim is, as long as they are satisfied. The 'hunger' for that type of action may not go away with salvation, and the temptation shouldn't be placed in front of them so they can fall again.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
If you can't be sure that God placed him there, how can you be sure that God didn't place him there? Probably should let God sort it out.
That's why God gave me sense of trust in people. Regardless of the reason, if I don't trust him, he won't be my pastor. All the same, we don't allow child molesters, past or present, to pastor churches. That just isn't wise.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
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