I believe depth does matter. It's called maturity, which comes through living a disciplined Christian life. However, this relates to effectiveness, not to one's salvation. The ground which the seed is planted in may produce 30, 60, or 100 fold, but nonetheless, it's still called good ground. This is why we are told not to compare ourselves among ourselves. Instead we are simply to lovingly supply the support others need to live out their faith.
Even the mature have a fluctuating state. Thankfully this doesn't affect our standing with God. There are days when I am more disciplined than others. On disciplined days I don't post on AFF!
Depth is also known as abiding in Christ. The true Christian is to "abide in him".
5: I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6: If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:5-6
It hardly seems like it is not a matter of salvation.
Depth is also known as abiding in Christ. The true Christian is to "abide in him".
5: I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6: If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:5-6
It hardly seems like it is not a matter of salvation.
Sorry, but I think we're talking a different analogy here. No one is going to be lost because they're immature in their walk with God. In the original analogy of planting a seed, we're talking about the Word taking root in someone's heart, but some ground being more fruitful. Note that Jesus refers to the ground being good ground whether it was producing 30, 60, or 100 fold.
"But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty." (Mt.13:23)
I tend to plant plants and i tend to plant them with their roots in the ground.
interesting you can take a tomato and plant it with 80% of the stem in the ground. this will give it a longer, deeper root system.
most plants if you plant them too deep, they will sufficate.
trees that are planted with the root ball completely covered will not do will, the swell that the base of the tree should be visable.
This is a good point. I feel this is what some pastors do with new converts at times. The Bible teaches us in 2Peter 1:5, "And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;"
Instead of following this pattern, some pastors in their zeal to indoctrinate new converts, focus on adding to faith knowledge instead of virtue. Consequently you end up with folks who have head knowledge of which they are mighty proud, but no virtue. They try to plant them too deep in knowledge before they have had opportunity to properly nurture their relationship with Christ Himself.
This is a good point. I feel this is what some pastors do with new converts at times. The Bible teaches us in 2Peter 1:5, "And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;"
Instead of following this pattern, some pastors in their zeal to indoctrinate new converts, focus on adding to faith knowledge instead of virtue. Consequently you end up with folks who have head knowledge of which they are mighty proud, but no virtue. They try to plant them too deep in knowledge before they have had opportunity to properly nurture their relationship with Christ Himself.
Excellent points TB!
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I believe depth does matter. It's called maturity, which comes through living a disciplined Christian life. However, this relates to effectiveness, not to one's salvation. The ground which the seed is planted in may produce 30, 60, or 100 fold, but nonetheless, it's still called good ground. This is why we are told not to compare ourselves among ourselves. Instead we are simply to lovingly supply the support others need to live out their faith.
Even the mature have a fluctuating state. Thankfully this doesn't affect our standing with God. There are days when I am more disciplined than others. On disciplined days I don't post on AFF!
I just wondered why the question of salvation came into play, and why you don't post on disciplined days..., wait, a possible answer to that second question just popped into my mind (it sounded like the Lord), on days when you are fasting and praying, you observe the principles outlined in Isaiah 58 by doing nothing but fasting and praying to make your voice heard on high. Could that be it?
I agree that it is counterproductive to compare horizontally among ourselves as fellow disciples, but I find it VERY helpful to compare myself NOW with how I was doing in any given area at any other given time since I began to walk with Jesus. I look for areas in which I seem to be less, then I ask myself if it is because I have grown or exercised more in some other area, then I challenge myself to regain the former without losing the latter. By so doing, I put down more "roots" without losing ground to erosion anywhere else.
I wholeheartedly agree that we cannot lose our salvation specifically by being shallow, even if we've become shallow from depth; but the Lord and the Apostles encouraged us to build with precious metals and gems and stay away from the wood, hay, and stubble. I don't just want to make it, I want to have a lot of treasure if I possibly can!
Please pray for me and be my friend; you are valuable.
I think people fail to assimilate the WHOLE COUNSEL of the teachings of Jesus. Obviously a NEW CONVERT will not be the same stature of a seasoned Saint. Notwithstanding every generation up to the one we are living left some time for Saints to mature.
Yeshua said THIS to Church members.
1: And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
2: Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3: Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. 4: Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5: He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Rev. 3:1-5
Yeshua warns his Church. Your works must be perfect. If you do not OVERCOME you will be BLOTTED OUT of the book of life.
Yet men today say our "depth" in Christ has nothing to do with salvation. This is the kind of teaching that PRODUCES immature Saints. They are told if they DONT MATURE they will still be saved. Yeshua says NOT.
It is very shallow at the moment. I am no longer willing to pay that price.
Jesus paid it all. Seriously. Legalism can quickly make one think THEY have to pay the price, when it is already paid.
All we have to do is learn who we ALREADY ARE and HAVE BEEN since salvation, and stop trying to improve ourselves, but le the Spirit within us FLOW OUT by simply praying ofr it and expecting it in turn.
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