No offence, but this is just your opinion. What is Jesus'? Where does He say He agrees with you? As Christians that should be our REAL concern.
You say this, but then it is pointed out to you that God ordered the deaths of thousands of people you blow it off with another question. The Bible says there is a time for war. Who is supposed to fight that war? Is God supposed to swoop down like Mighty Mouse to save the day so people won't actually have to die?
I am not in favor of reinstating the draft. I lived through the draft days of the 60's and early 70's, when we were sending men over to Vietnam. The only way I would be in favor of a draft would be in a situation like WWII. Where the US was attacked and a war ensued for our freedoms. This is not the case in the present confrontation we are participating in in Iraq.IMO
Just my opinion of course, but I believe that every able bodied American should be conscripted to serve National interest in some form or the other for at least two years.
Of course it would be the most unpopular policy in America too.
Just my opinion of course, but I believe that every able bodied American should be conscripted to serve National interest in some form or the other for at least two years.
Of course it would be the most unpopular policy in America too.
I think they should also! I think one year would be good. After a year they could re-up or get out.
How long do they serve in Israel? I know they have a mandatory there.
You say this, but then it is pointed out to you that God ordered the deaths of thousands of people you blow it off with another question. The Bible says there is a time for war. Who is supposed to fight that war? Is God supposed to swoop down like Mighty Mouse to save the day so people won't actually have to die?
Rico,
This is not a new question; it is the same one I keep asking.
The same people you said were called to fight physical wars in the Old Testament were also called to do the following:
Deuteronomy 21:18-21 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: (19) Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; (20) And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. (21) And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
Is this to still be enforced in the New Testament as well? If not, why is this any different than what you are saying? I am not asking because I need this answer; this question is for you….
Remember John and James’ request?
Luke 9:54-55 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elijah did? (55) But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
Why was such vengeance acceptable during Elijah’s time, but not during the New Testament? Why did Jesus say that Zebedee’s, “Sons of Thunder, were asking for something that was of a “different spirit” than Jesus’? Again, I am not asking for me….
God used to wink at a lot of things that the New Testament says He now calls all men to repent for. Jesus said Moses allowed divorce because of the hardness of their Old-Testament-hearts, but then He raised the standard for all men in the New Testament and showed that a new heart should bring a deeper commitment. Jesus had a woman caught in adultery cast before His feet to see if He would agree with stoning her as commanded through Moses. What did Jesus do? He showed that judgment was not the highest standard of His kingdom. Instead He showed mercy. Rico, Jesus’ kingdom is built on His blood, not on His enemy’s. Jesus’ kingdom is to be known for love and mercy, not for hate and judgment. How can we demonstrate these godly traits while fighting a war?
Jesus is not a weak god that cannot rule from his own throne. Do you truly believe that He needs His Church to execute justice for him? See that is where we differ. I cannot find any scripture that says Jesus uses His Church for these things. Paul said that He uses heathen leaders for that, but the Church is to stay focused on love (See Romans 13:1-10).
I have asked repeatedly where the Jesus and or His Apostles wrote favorably concerning the Church involving herself in war or in killing her enemies. The absence of these scriptures should be cause enough for any who favor this draft to stop and think about how they could be in favor for something unsupported—and even spoken against—in scripture. How can we trust Jesus for our healing, or for our sustenance, or for our salvation, but not for our safety? The early Church trusted Him in all these. That is why there is NO RECORD of the early Church ever taking up arms to defend themselves. This is one of the biggest reasons why Rome was so attracted to the Church. Though persecuted, they never fought back. The Romans saw this as a strength that exceeded mere human ability. This testimony substantiated the Jesus that the Church preached and died for! Because of this, Rico, why should we be any different? Did Jesus change, or did men?
Sorry about the length of my post, but some things take more than a few words to say.
__________________
The Bible is open to those that want Truth, and if they want Truth, they find Truth. They watch individuals squabble over Bible symbolism on the Internet, and leave the Message boards to enter into the real world where live people dwell, and they find Truth. The World Wide Web is full of Internet Ayatollahs who speak their mind. There is only one Truth, and it is not hidden. No matter what anyone says, Truth still converts the sincere. -DD Benincasa, 12/06/03
I have a 19 year old son and some pretty entrenched opinions and emotional responses.
1. NO WAY should we be drafting young men for a prolonged war that many in the country don't want and that we are not prepared to win once and for all.
I'm with you all the way Sister. NO WAY. As far as Christianity goes Christians are not to fight, period. For all those who claim that war is part of the New Covenant Church are some who say their is no scripture for standards, tithes, or instrumental music, etc, but will beat their tin drum and tell us that the Church of Jesus Christ can go to war? No scriptural backing whatsoever? I agree with you on the above quote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newman
2. NO WAY should women be drafted for combat. They are a liability on the battlefield, physically and emotionally.
Correct! They are also a liabilty behind the pulpit as a pastor over a congregation. Now all you have to do Sister is put the two thoughts together. Amen?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newman
Women's bodies were designed for bringing forth life not fighting wars.
Totally correct Sister Newman, one they shouldn't be fighting wars and number two if they're Christians they should not do any harm to any person, for any reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newman
Their lack of upperbody strength and inability to throw a grenade far enough puts everybody at risk.
Also the lack of upper body strength behind a pulpit when assuming the role of apostle or pastor over a congregation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newman
Furthermore, Women's emotions enable nurturing but are not so great for combat.
Also not so great in leadership over men.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newman
The presence of women in these places also destroys the sanctity of the families back home. Good men stray under the strain of uncertainty and the daily proximity of women.
Keep in mind especially when those same women are in positions over men in a congregation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newman
It has been said that there is no such thing as an ugly woman on a ship over time.
And in fact; one out of 10 women are removed from ships and/or the battlefield due to pregnancy.
Hey what happens when a pastor get preganant?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newman
And for the record; one can advocate for the right of women to be treated the same as men where they are EQUIPPED to handle it; without sending them into combat to the detriment of ALL.
This is a hit and run post!
You are correct! Keep the ladies out of the male roles and the world will be a nicer place to be.
Now that the women have for so long pushed, pushed, pushed, campaigned for, sought after, insisted upon every equality with the men, to which I have no objection, then I say, "Shoulder arms ol' girl, we are going to war and do not lag behind."
My daughter was 10 when 9/11 went off, I knew then she would come of age in a world at war. My bottom line is Iraq isn't about freedom or the war on terror, it is about an imbecile we put in office and stupidly continue to follow. My kid's blood isn't for sale.
Try and take her to feed the war machine and I'll buy her ticket to anywhere else myself.
This is not a new question; it is the same one I keep asking.
The same people you said were called to fight physical wars in the Old Testament were also called to do the following:
Deuteronomy 21:18-21 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: (19) Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; (20) And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. (21) And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
Is this to still be enforced in the New Testament as well? If not, why is this any different than what you are saying? I am not asking because I need this answer; this question is for you….
Remember John and James’ request?
Luke 9:54-55 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elijah did? (55) But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
Why was such vengeance acceptable during Elijah’s time, but not during the New Testament? Why did Jesus say that Zebedee’s, “Sons of Thunder, were asking for something that was of a “different spirit” than Jesus’? Again, I am not asking for me….
God used to wink at a lot of things that the New Testament says He now calls all men to repent for. Jesus said Moses allowed divorce because of the hardness of their Old-Testament-hearts, but then He raised the standard for all men in the New Testament and showed that a new heart should bring a deeper commitment. Jesus had a woman caught in adultery cast before His feet to see if He would agree with stoning her as commanded through Moses. What did Jesus do? He showed that judgment was not the highest standard of His kingdom. Instead He showed mercy. Rico, Jesus’ kingdom is built on His blood, not on His enemy’s. Jesus’ kingdom is to be known for love and mercy, not for hate and judgment. How can we demonstrate these godly traits while fighting a war?
Jesus is not a weak god that cannot rule from his own throne. Do you truly believe that He needs His Church to execute justice for him? See that is where we differ. I cannot find any scripture that says Jesus uses His Church for these things. Paul said that He uses heathen leaders for that, but the Church is to stay focused on love (See Romans 13:1-10).
I have asked repeatedly where the Jesus and or His Apostles wrote favorably concerning the Church involving herself in war or in killing her enemies. The absence of these scriptures should be cause enough for any who favor this draft to stop and think about how they could be in favor for something unsupported—and even spoken against—in scripture. How can we trust Jesus for our healing, or for our sustenance, or for our salvation, but not for our safety? The early Church trusted Him in all these. That is why there is NO RECORD of the early Church ever taking up arms to defend themselves. This is one of the biggest reasons why Rome was so attracted to the Church. Though persecuted, they never fought back. The Romans saw this as a strength that exceeded mere human ability. This testimony substantiated the Jesus that the Church preached and died for! Because of this, Rico, why should we be any different? Did Jesus change, or did men?
Sorry about the length of my post, but some things take more than a few words to say.
Well done L&F you did a very good job in this post. Turn the other cheek means turn the other cheek. One cannot get around the anti-retaliation of the New Covenant Church. Ghandi was even inspired by the non-retaliation that was taught in the scripture of the New Testament. Do no harm, we are not to hurt anyone. Brothers and Sisters life takes on new meaning when your friend is bleeding to death in your arms. Anyone who wants to see our young people go to war, especially my daughters, maybe you should be on the front line first? First partakers of the fruit...right?
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