Celebrity Preachers

Originally Posted by deacon blues

HA-HA!!!

Well all that being said, the man had good qualities too. His ministry was not without successes. Unfortunately the first thing people think of when he comes up is "He's Filthy Rich".

If a pastor, with the income he makes is able to make his personal wealth grow through outside sources, I have no problem with. I still think it can send the wrong message if the man lives to a point of extravagence. As a "man of God" there is a different standard he must live by (DID I SAY STANDARD?).

We often hear how the man of God has to live by convictions that are above the people in order to keep the people living by a higher standard. If that is the case then we can't turn around and say, "Nobody criticizes the Apostolic plumber for making a bunch of money. Nobody criticizes the Apostolic business owner of if he drives a $60,000 car." Well, that's because the expectations of a pastor and a lay man are different. If a preacher doesn't know that, then maybe he needs to think about a different career. You can't have it both ways.

Also, its one thing for a preacher to invest in the stock market and do well. Its another thing for a preacher to spend lots of time investing in businesses that require a lot of his time and effort and attention. If it s something he can do on the side without much distraction, I don't have a problem with. But if the guy neglects his duties in serving the saints, I have a problem with it.

I was taught the principle you espouse here by a Godly example. My dad was quite successful in a HVAC and Plumbing contracting business. When God called him to go back into full time ministry he locked the doors on his business... never sold it or the name... just went and preached. He had plenty set aside for his tomorrows, was debt free and didn't need the income from a sale of his business to survive. During my growing up years (when he was still in secular business) Dad always had a new Ford pickup and Mom always drove a Lincoln Town Car. We never lived extravagantly but we did live comfortably.

When Dad returned to full time ministry he sold his truck and Mom's Lincoln and bought a nice but used truck and he bought Mom a new but more middle of the road automobile. He did not want to ever live in such a manner as to detract from the purpose of his ministry. Although he believed the tithe belonged 100% to the ministry, he never took more personal income from the church than what was equal to 10% more than the mean as opposed to the average income of the congregation. He did not want to live higher than the average individual in his church and he certainly didn't want to compare himself to the most wealthy in the church so he didn't consider their income in establishing the mean. He served his community not just his church. He was always known as the pastor of the town or community where we lived because he was not called to the saints but to the people of that area.

Dad has been dead for 12 years as of May the 8th and to this day I have non-Pentecostal folks in the Longville/Ragley, LA area come up to me and recount some act of kindness or generosity or compassion that they experienced through their interactions with Dad! He was a shepherd and did not exclude any from his oversight and care.

I thank God for that example of what it means to be a pastor! His crown is probably quite a site to see!

[Sandra]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

This is pretty pitiful. It shows how much we value the preacher that brings the word. To me, a large campmeeting should pay its preachers at least $2500 per night, plus lodge them in the best hotel available, and feed them the best food available.

I can understand that a small church may not be able to do as much, but churches need to start thinking "excellence" when inviting ministers.

you got that right Matt, and the singer 15 and 35 lol !!!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

This is pretty pitiful. It shows how much we value the preacher that brings the word. To me, a large campmeeting should pay its preachers at least $2500 per night, plus lodge them in the best hotel available, and feed them the best food available.

I can understand that a small church may not be able to do as much, but churches need to start thinking "excellence" when inviting ministers.

Matty you the man!!!

[Sam]

Originally Posted by philjones

I was taught the principle you espouse here by a Godly example. My dad was quite successful in a HVAC and Plumbing contracting business. When God called him to go back into full time ministry he locked the doors on his business... never sold it or the name... just went and preached. He had plenty set aside for his tomorrows, was debt free and didn't need the income from a sale of his business to survive. During my growing up years (when he was still in secular business) Dad always had a new Ford pickup and Mom always drove a Lincoln Town Car. We never lived extravagantly but we did live comfortably.

When Dad returned to full time ministry he sold his truck and Mom's Lincoln and bought a nice but used truck and he bought Mom a new but more middle of the road automobile. He did not want to ever live in such a manner as to detract from the purpose of his ministry. Although he believed the tithe belonged 100% to the ministry, he never took more personal income from the church than what was equal to 10% more than the mean as opposed to the average income of the congregation. He did not want to live higher than the average individual in his church and he certainly didn't want to compare himself to the most wealthy in the church so he didn't consider their income in establishing the mean. He served his community not just his church. He was always known as the pastor of the town or community where we lived because he was not called to the saints but to the people of that area.

Dad has been dead for 12 years as of May the 8th and to this day I have non-Pentecostal folks in the Longville/Ragley, LA area come up to me and recount some act of kindness or generosity or compassion that they experienced through their interactions with Dad! He was a shepherd and did not exclude any from his oversight and care.

I thank God for that example of what it means to be a pastor! His crown is probably quite a site to see!

Thank you for that inspiring post.
What a genuine man of God, what a shepherd, what a demonstration of the heart of the Chief Shepherd!
What a legacy you have.

[Sandra]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I was going to quote others, but did not want to put anyone in the hot seat.


It amazes me that Apostolics are so cheap when it comes to offering time. We show just how "Oneness" we really are every service at offering time when we drop our dollar in. Folks we are missing out on a lot of the financial blessings that many charismatics are getting because we are stingy with our money. For me to hear "For What!" when I state that a preacher at a camp should receive a $2500 gift lets me know that for most of you, the preaching of the word is not that valued in your life.

Lets look at this reasonably. IF a large camp is roughly 1000 in attendance, and a special offering is taken up for the speakers on the biggest night with the one taking the offering asking each family represented to give at least a $20 offering, then conceivably the offering could be $10,000, given that all 1000 are married couples. Folks this easily would give at least $2500 to 4 speakers. And that is only is everyone gave a minimum $20 gift. Some will give more. Most will waste $20 over the coarse of a week.


My whole point in my above quoted post was not to necessarily set a price, but to get folks to understand that the mindset of blessing the men that give you the spiritual things with excellence. I understand that a small church may not be able to give as much, unless they PLAN in advance. But all of Apostolics need to be taught to give generously and be a blessing to the ministry.

And lastly, for those of you that want to hold the minister down to the "going wages", I would say that you probably do not know how much time is given into pastoring a church. My dad pastored a small church for over 18 years. He was a nobody. But it was normal for him to get calls all hours of the night for folks he did not know in the hospital dying, and he would get up and go. He, and his family sacrificed much for the church. He was in the Union prior to pastoring, and could have went back and made 16+ per hour at any time, and that was good wages in the early 70's. But he did not feel that he could really "pastor" the folks God had gave him to feed, and work an outside job to. There was times we lived on $400 for the month, just so the church could keep its doors open. I said all that to say that a true Pastor is on the clock 24 hours a day. He is caring for the most valued possession there is, and some of you want to limit his income to what a secular job would be. BAH- HUMBUG!!!

Well said!

Originally Posted by Sam

Thank you for that inspiring post.
What a genuine man of God, what a shepherd, what a demonstration of the heart of the Chief Shepherd!
What a legacy you have.

Thank you, Sam. My dad was an unheralded hero to many!

[Felicity]

Don't you just love all these unheralded pastors who have been faithful through the years influencing and shepherding and loving and caring for and feeding and praying for those God has brought under the shelter of their care and pastoral leadership?

I do!!!!

I know many just like that. No big name recognition. No plaques. Names aren't in the list of the top 10 or top 20 this or that. Just doing their job day after day, sacrificing silently and dealing with life as it's dealt them without a lot of flair or pizzaz. Non celebrity status.

I thank God for them!! Many of these men are my heroes!

[Old Paths]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Don't you just love all these unheralded pastors who have been faithful through the years influencing and shepherding and loving and caring for and feeding and praying for those God has brought under the shelter of their care and pastoral leadership?

I do!!!!

I know many just like that. No big name recognition. No plaques. Names aren't in the list of the top 10 or top 20 this or that. Just doing their job day after day, sacrificing silently and dealing with life as it's dealt them without a lot of flair or pizzaz. Non celebrity status.

I thank God for them!! Many of these men are my heroes!

Felicity

When I read your post I was reminded of this verse


Eccl 10:7

7 I have seen servants upon horses, and princes walking as servants upon the earth.
KJV

[Sam]

Just think about the time when we stand before our Lord and He passes out rewards. There will be lots of surprises there when the unknowns and unnoticed receive rewards for their faithfulness and the "stars" are overlooked because they've already received their rewards. In my understanding, the early part of the third chapter of 1 Corinthians talks about rewards for Christians. Our works will be judged/examined and we will be rewarded accordingly. Verse13 says our works will be revealed by fire as to what sort (not size) they are. Also, verse 10 tells us to take heed how (not how much or how big) we build on the foundation of Jesus.

1 Peter 5:1-& speaks about a time when the Chief Shepherd comes to reward his under shepherds. Here it is from The Message.

1-3 I have a special concern for you church leaders. I know what it's like to be a leader, in on Christ's sufferings as well as the coming glory. Here's my concern: that you care for God's flock with all the diligence of a shepherd. Not because you have to, but because you want to please God. Not calculating what you can get out of it, but acting spontaneously. Not bossily telling others what to do, but tenderly showing them the way.
4-5 When God, who is the best shepherd of all, comes out in the open with his rule, he'll see that you've done it right and commend you lavishly. And you who are younger must follow your leaders. But all of you, leaders and followers alike, are to be down to earth with each other, for—
God has had it with the proud,
But takes delight in just plain people.
6-7 So be content with who you are, and don't put on airs. God's strong hand is on you; he'll promote you at the right time. Live carefree before God; he is most careful with you.

We've been given some good examples here of the real servants of God in contrast to the stars who are like the person in that first post.

[Old Paths]

Bro. Matt

$2500 for a camp meeting!

Some of them do, yep some of them do.