*d-day: September 28th, 2007 - Conservatives Will Take The Hill*

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Malvaro

Its a gaping wound that the UPC has been ignoring for years.... it might be a bit late to turn that boat around....

The most telling stat I think would be a study of the net gain of ministers and churches with the last 10 years ... we only hear how many have been added but never is there a light to net gain ...

Last I heard was 10 years ago there were something like 8800 ministers ... today there is about 9200 [?] ... only 400-500 ministers added in a decade???

[SDG]

With moderates pulling out some of the most established and larger churches in the org ... what are the economic consequences?

[DividedThigh]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

With moderates pulling out some of the most established and larger churches in the org ... what are the economic consequences?

huggggggggge,dt

[Malvaro]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

So much upheaval! We rarely discuss the rumors of a UPC/ALJC merger if it passes. September 28th will be an historic day for all of Oneness Pentecostalism in my opinion.

I'm only 39, but I've never seen the like!

no possible chance of UPC/ALJC merger, unless TV does pass.... which contradicts your own prediction that TV won't pass....

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

Has anyone noticed the discontent that permeates the church? No matter what church or organization there seems to be a constant complaining and criticizing going on. Is this simply indicative of the last days and the unthankfulness that would characterize the last days? In the world everyone is in pursuit of more, or something different. I think the spirit of the world in the church is contributing to the disunity within the church. Everyone seems to want something more dazzling, or change for the sake of change it seems. This is leading people away from the simplicity of the gospel and faith based worship into "power in hair doctrines" and emotion driven worship that is more like the hype one would experience at a rock concert than in a deep faith expressive worship service.

TB,

Good post!

I have felt for some time that one of the most dangerous spirits, if not THE most dangerous spirit, that wars against the church is the spirit of discontent coupled with carnal selfishness. It is revealed in a broad array of symptoms that are often singled out and identified as unique spirits when the root is actually selfish discontent! It destroys homes and marriages and church families. At times, it ruins preachers reputations and destroys ethical behavior among the ministry and the saints. It leads to those things you expressed. Discontent is vewy vewy dangerous to the souls of men and the church!

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Malvaro

Its a gaping wound that the UPC has been ignoring for years.... it might be a bit late to turn that boat around....

How many years would you say?

[Charlie Brown]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

Has anyone noticed the discontent that permeates the church? No matter what church or organization there seems to be a constant complaining and criticizing going on. Is this simply indicative of the last days and the unthankfulness that would characterize the last days? In the world everyone is in pursuit of more, or something different. I think the spirit of the world in the church is contributing to the disunity within the church. Everyone seems to want something more dazzling, or change for the sake of change it seems. This is leading people away from the simplicity of the gospel and faith based worship into "power in hair doctrines" and emotion driven worship that is more like the hype one would experience at a rock concert than in a deep faith expressive worship service.

I was just speaking about this with my wife yesterday. It seems we have complicated "religion" so much that we can no longer say we preach the "simplicity of the gospel". Don't get me wrong, I am a standards keeper. But we have so complicated and politicized everything that I grow sick of all of it.

[Charlie Brown]

Originally Posted by Twisp

Pretty sure the ALJC is just as "holy" as the UPC.

I didn't mean that the way it came out. There are great men and women within the ALJC. My point was supposed to be that they are not as dogmatic about standards and such as the UPCI bunch.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Charlie Brown

I was just speaking about this with my wife yesterday. It seems we have complicated "religion" so much that we can no longer say we preach the "simplicity of the gospel". Don't get me wrong, I am a standards keeper. But we have so complicated and politicized everything that I grow sick of all of it.

Try pastoring these days CB! Or maybe not. LOL.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Malvaro

no possible chance of UPC/ALJC merger, unless TV does pass.... which contradicts your own prediction that TV won't pass....

I was speaking hypothetically.

I don't feel it will pass.