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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #111  
Old 07-17-2007, 10:52 AM
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Steve Epley Steve Epley is offline
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Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
LOL! What was the question? j/k!

I'm saying that nothing is applied forever - we have to continue walking with Him in obedience. It isn't a "once saved always saved" deal.

Romans 12:2 "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

Now onto the blood:

As I don't actually believe the "blood is applied", but better "the work He did and the hope He transferred to us by his blood" would be better.

Ephesians 2:13 "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."

We are made "nigh by the blood of Christ" because we are "in" Christ.

How are we "in" Christ?

I Peter 1:2 "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied."

You could say that work or the blood was applied after sanctification. I Peter appears to qualify that as being "spirit filled."

I John 1:7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

I John 1:7 shows that it is a continuing work.

So, I'm back at Acts 2:38 and pressing-on.......
True the OT type the blood BEGAN at the brazen altar and remained until the Holiest of All. Every piece of furniture had blood sprinkled on it thus the blood make that particular piece a experience that was purchased by blood. The entire WALK was in a trail of Blood. Thus it is with us the blood that purchased my salvation at the cross makes available each experience from repentance until rapture. WATER was in the TRIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A DEATH sentence was placed on those who did NOT wash in WATER. And every sacrifice includes BLOOD-WATER-OIL-FIRE! The makes complete. The blood-water-spirit agree in one.
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  #112  
Old 07-17-2007, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
True the OT type the blood BEGAN at the brazen altar and remained until the Holiest of All. Every piece of furniture had blood sprinkled on it thus the blood make that particular piece a experience that was purchased by blood. The entire WALK was in a trail of Blood. Thus it is with us the blood that purchased my salvation at the cross makes available each experience from repentance until rapture. WATER was in the TRIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A DEATH sentence was placed on those who did NOT wash in WATER. And every sacrifice includes BLOOD-WATER-OIL-FIRE! The makes complete. The blood-water-spirit agree in one.
Whew! I feel the Holy Ghost up in here!!!! That is good, Brother Epley!

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  #113  
Old 07-17-2007, 10:55 AM
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One little problem with your parallelism ... Elder the water in the temple was one of continual washing .... not a a one-stop sin remover ....
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  #114  
Old 07-17-2007, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
One little problem with your parallelism ... Elder the water in the temple was one of continual washing .... not a a one-stop sin remover ....
True but the priest were WASHED first. Then the continual washing was WATER. However the IMPORTANCE of WATER is seen here like ALL the other types in the OT cleansing and sacricifice ALL including WATER. Why would you MINIMIZE what God EMPHASIZED????? BLOOD-WATER-OIL-FIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!
They certainly picture MORE than ONE aspect in our WALK with Him no one is denying that. But your attempt to MINIMIZE the IMPORTANCE God places on water in these types is interesting. If BLOOD alone finished everything in our cleansing all these types and shadows were in vain. BLOOD-WATER-OIL-FIRE the agents in cleansing every saint.
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  #115  
Old 07-17-2007, 11:02 AM
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Daniel Seagraves, noted Oneness scholar, on the feeble attempt to match the temple to the New Birth experience.

--------------------------------------------------------------

While the Tabernacle of old was definitely a figure (Greek parabole) (Hebrews 9:9), no New Testament verse seeks to interpret the meaning of each item associated with Tabernacle worship. By necessity, then, much of the interpretation regarding the Tabernacle is speculative at best. What the New Testament does clearly indicate is that the essential purpose of the Tabernacle worship, as a whole, was to prefigure the coming Christ and His role as the final and only efficacious sacrifice (Hebrews 9:8-14, 23-26; 10:1-21; Colossians 2:16-17; Galatians 3:24).

There are several reasons why the laver seems not to be an adequate type of water baptism:

1. Contrary to the author's assumption that the laver was "scheduled after the initial approach and sacrifice at the brazen altar and before entering the Holy Place," the laver was the first destination of the priest, even before approaching the brazen altar (Exodus 30:20; 40:12, 30-32). If the brazen altar represents repentance and the laver water baptism, this would place baptism before repentance in typology.

2. While the New Testament does assign specific typological meaning to certain Old Testament events and practices, it nowhere specifies the laver as a type of water baptism.

3. The laver was not a place of immersion, but mere washing.

4. The priests had to wash at the laver repeatedly each time they planned to minister. Water baptism is a one-time event.

If the laver is typical of any New Testament truth, it would seem more appropriate to consider it to be typical of the daily washing of believers by the Word of God, as seen in Ephesians 5:26: "That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word."

The laver would seem an appropriate symbol of this for the following reasons:

1. It was covered with mirrors, reflecting the approaching priest's image. The New Testament compares the Word of God to a mirror in which men behold themselves (James 1:23).

2. The washing at the laver was a continual thing; the washing of water by the Word is a continuing process.

The author's discussion of circumcision as a type of water baptism was more satisfying and biblically based.
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  #116  
Old 07-17-2007, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
True but the priest were WASHED first. Then the continual washing was WATER. However the IMPORTANCE of WATER is seen here like ALL the other types in the OT cleansing and sacricifice ALL including WATER. Why would you MINIMIZE what God EMPHASIZED????? BLOOD-WATER-OIL-FIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!
They certainly picture MORE than ONE aspect in our WALK with Him no one is denying that. But your attempt to MINIMIZE the IMPORTANCE God places on water in these types is interesting. If BLOOD alone finished everything in our cleansing all these types and shadows were in vain. BLOOD-WATER-OIL-FIRE the agents in cleansing every saint.
Now water does remit, or as you define it as "washes", sin ... interesting .... the writer in Hebrews says its blood.
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  #117  
Old 07-17-2007, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
True but the priest were WASHED first. Then the continual washing was WATER. However the IMPORTANCE of WATER is seen here like ALL the other types in the OT cleansing and sacricifice ALL including WATER. Why would you MINIMIZE what God EMPHASIZED????? BLOOD-WATER-OIL-FIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!
They certainly picture MORE than ONE aspect in our WALK with Him no one is denying that. But your attempt to MINIMIZE the IMPORTANCE God places on water in these types is interesting. If BLOOD alone finished everything in our cleansing all these types and shadows were in vain. BLOOD-WATER-OIL-FIRE the agents in cleansing every saint.
This is truth.
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  #118  
Old 07-17-2007, 11:08 AM
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If BLOOD alone finished everything in our cleansing all these types and shadows were in vain
The shadows throughout the book point to Jesus Christ and HIS WORK... not your interpretation of Acts 2:38.

I believe most of the shadows of water in the OT refer to the Spirit of Christ ... the river of living water ... and also the Word ... Jesus is the Word that became flesh.
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  #119  
Old 07-17-2007, 11:12 AM
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Steve Epley Steve Epley is offline
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Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
Danie Seagraves, noted Oneness scholar, on the feeble attempt to match the temple to the New Birth experience.

--------------------------------------------------------------

While the Tabernacle of old was definitely a figure (Greek parabole) (Hebrews 9:9), no New Testament verse seeks to interpret the meaning of each item associated with Tabernacle worship. By necessity, then, much of the interpretation regarding the Tabernacle is speculative at best. What the New Testament does clearly indicate is that the essential purpose of the Tabernacle worship, as a whole, was to prefigure the coming Christ and His role as the final and only efficacious sacrifice (Hebrews 9:8-14, 23-26; 10:1-21; Colossians 2:16-17; Galatians 3:24).

There are several reasons why the laver seems not to be an adequate type of water baptism:

1. Contrary to the author's assumption that the laver was "scheduled after the initial approach and sacrifice at the brazen altar and before entering the Holy Place," the laver was the first destination of the priest, even before approaching the brazen altar (Exodus 30:20; 40:12, 30-32). If the brazen altar represents repentance and the laver water baptism, this would place baptism before repentance in typology.

2. While the New Testament does assign specific typological meaning to certain Old Testament events and practices, it nowhere specifies the laver as a type of water baptism.

3. The laver was not a place of immersion, but mere washing.

4. The priests had to wash at the laver repeatedly each time they planned to minister. Water baptism is a one-time event.

If the laver is typical of any New Testament truth, it would seem more appropriate to consider it to be typical of the daily washing of believers by the Word of God, as seen in Ephesians 5:26: "That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word."

The laver would seem an appropriate symbol of this for the following reasons:

1. It was covered with mirrors, reflecting the approaching priest's image. The New Testament compares the Word of God to a mirror in which men behold themselves (James 1:23).

2. The washing at the laver was a continual thing; the washing of water by the Word is a continuing process.

The author's discussion of circumcision as a type of water baptism was more satisfying and biblically based.
Dan I heard an ole preacher say years ago no type sets on all four legs. For example two goats in the atonement to represent the two aspects of Christ's work through DEATH & RESURRECTION. And this is replete. You are too smart for this WAVE of hand argument you are doing. Again BLOOD-WATER-OIL-FIRE was included to cleanse. I challenge all to begin at Exodus and finish at Deuteronomy examine the sacrifices and cleansings. These elements are central NOT just BLOOD alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! God is saying something to us.
At Jesus death out His side was WATER & BLOOD. Then when the blod had been shed read the record belief-repentance-baptism-HG was the message that included persecutiol-trials or FIRE! BLOOD-WATER-OIL-FIRE.
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  #120  
Old 07-17-2007, 11:14 AM
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Note to all readers: Elder Epley wants you to read Exodus thru Deut. and have it fit Acts 2:38 .... an exercise in suggestion.

I am amazed to hear this notion among Pentecost that all scripture points to Acts 2:38
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