Show Me the Money

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

And it's not just proper accounting...but proper understanding that the entire "so called tithe" (since it does not measure up to the true meaning of the word tithe, but I will use it right now to mean the giving of money from the saints) does not belong to a Pastor....that is unbiblical and shameful for those that think it does. There are a lot of fronts to cover in this debate, but the entire giving does not belong to the Pastor.

The answer is simple keep your money. I have never extorted anyone's money. They gave to God and He gave it to me. And I give it back a percentage WAY above what any saint I know gives back.

You would have the preacher on food stamps living in the projects and still you would not be happy because you guys hate the ministry. A preacher (God-called that is) could never in a million years make you happy. But in time a money scheme or charlatan will bilk you it always works like that.

Folks who do not trust me with their money guess what there Pentecostal churches galore around us God bless you and have a good day.

But there are some saints who love-trust us and do not lay awake at night wondering if I am going to buy a new pair of shoes. I rejoice when they are blessed and they do so when I am blessed.

[Jehoram]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

Friend, I know how to read financial data (i.e. P&L Statements, Income/Expense Reports)...how does having this ability or skill make me pompous? You asked a question and I told you how I can answer it (i.e. SHOW ME THE MONEY) ...and now you revert to saying I sound pompous?

You do sound pompous, but that's okay.

I'll leave you guys to this one.

It's fruitless.

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

It's utterly ridiculous and an outright fabrication to insinuate that because some ask
for a biblical God-ordained accounting of the handling of the tithe are in any form or fashion anti-preacher.

I personally have eaten and been clothed by the generosity of some of the hardest-working saints in Pentecost.

What has become apparent is that some modern-day leeching Levites refuse to examine the topic of biblical giving in context to
rest of the Word ... while belittling and slamming any half-brained saint who questions their authority ....and that friends ...
is the crux of the issue.

I've seen and eaten w/ men of God who are Kingdom-minded and not feifdom-obsessed.

I quite frankly refuse not to accept the edicts of carnal men who claim that they hold a monopoly on truth but will only pick and choose
what aspects of truth need to be on the forefront.

For the franchise owners who want to obfuscate ... no matter how you flip it, sautee it, skillet or grill it ... no one
is against giving in abundance to the work of the Kingdom or the man of God ... this is about timeless biblical principles conveniently
ignored about church governance and distribution of the grain in the storehouse. Many criticize the Dolars of the Prosperity movement when they themselves do not realize that they are the pre-cursors to this shameless movement.

Brother Strange, we now have a class of pseudo-ministers among the servants of the Most High ... posing.

P.S. Men died to have the scriptures translated in their vernacular ... for the right to read their own bible ... and the biblical truth of the priesthood of all believers.

Which recallls to mind many years ago, J. T. Pugh was in an airport waiting for his plane where he engaged a young man to witness to him. The young man snarled in Bro. Pugh's face and said, "Jesus Christ DIED on his cross. You preachers get FAT on it."

Those words struck deep into his heart as he later went to his knees to examine his stewardship.

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

because you guys hate the ministry.

If you think I hate the ministry, I think you hate the flock.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

If you think I hate the ministry, I think you hate the flock.

Fine with me the flock I pastor does NOT believe that and believe or not they are the ones that matter to me. NEVER in a million years could you convince them I do not love them. I wonder what the pastors would say who have attempted to pastor you???? That is the question?

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Alter Ego

You do sound pompous, but that's okay.

I'll leave you guys to this one.

It's fruitless.

We've presented facts from the word of God and nobody has refuted it... go your merry way...

Originally Posted by J-Roc

Friend, I know how to read financial data (i.e. P&L Statements, Income/Expense Reports)...how does having this ability or skill make me pompous? You asked a question and I told you how I can answer it (i.e. SHOW ME THE MONEY) ...and now you resort to saying I sound pompous?

LOL...

Wait until they start calling you condescending. God forbid that you can read a Balance Sheet. You might even then be promoted to
a "condescending, know-it-all."

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Fine with me the flock I pastor does NOT believe that and believe or not they are the ones that matter to me. NEVER in a million years could you convince them I do not love them. I wonder what the pastors would say who have attempted to pastor you???? That is the question?

And you can't convince nobody that I don't love them...so now, let's leave those childish comments out...your attempts to make biting remarks is laughable.

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

LOL...

Wait until they start calling you condescending. God forbid that you can read a Balance Sheet. You might even then be promoted to
a "condescending, know-it-all."

Bro. Strange...it's in their playbook...it is stale.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

In Leviticus 27 where it discusses redeeming dedicated items, Jewish people had the opportunity to redeem the tithe with the monetary value of it, plus an additional 20 percent of that value. Money is not required from the Lord as a tithe, but rather, the required items are produce and livestock. Mizpeh, what does the Lord require today that is in an individual's possession and can be redeemed with money? Are tithers receiving wheat or corn in return for money, or a dedicated person, field or house? The problem is that Christians hand over money and call it a tithe...but as recorded in Leviticus 27:30-31, when an individual gives the priest money, that person receives something tangible in return with 20% interest.

Leviticus 27:30-31 - "'A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the LORD; it is holy to the LORD. If a man redeems any of his tithe, he must add a fifth of the value to it."

Brother, I think you got that a little mixed up. If someone redeemed their tithes they paid an extra 20%, not received an extra 20%.