Defend your Faith

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Kutless

And until the Romans......the reading of the Torah in the synagogue......which Gentiles could not understand......which would make it an unknown tongue.


Paul spoke in tongues more than all of us...but he was educated. Educated in Hebrew. But lets not forget the very next verse in which it sounds like he would rather not do it in church.

vs.19 Yet in the church I had rather speak 5 words with my understanding, that by my voice I might reach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.


Chewy mentioned yesterday about people in the mic that rattle off tongues. It would seem by this set of scripture that that isn't biblical?

I do not believe one word of this as anything to do with 1Cor.14!

Verses 2-4 clearly states the tongue spoken was NOT understood by the speaker not some rabbi reading the Torah. Good grief!

[Kutless]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I do not believe one word of this as anything to do with 1Cor.14!

Verses 2-4 clearly states the tongue spoken was NOT understood by the speaker not some rabbi reading the Torah. Good grief!

Don't get yourself in a tuff this morning Pastor Epley, grab some coffee(If you believe in that) and lets have a discussion.

It does not specify that the speaker does not understand. Think maybe it could imply those listening?

Tractate Megillah, folio 3a. states:"And they read in the book, in the law of God, with an interpretation, and they gave the sense and caused them to understand the reading".


Are you saying that you have solid proof that the early church that was full of Jews did a quick clean break from all Judaic practices? From everything I've read....I'll site the sources if you wish....there was definitely the reading of the torah in the synagogue.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Kutless

Don't get yourself in a tuff this morning Pastor Epley, grab some coffee(If you believe in that) and lets have a discussion.

It does not specify that the speaker does not understand. Think maybe it could imply those listening?

Tractate Megillah, folio 3a. states:"And they read in the book, in the law of God, with an interpretation, and they gave the sense and caused them to understand the reading".


Are you saying that you have solid proof that the early church that was full of Jews did a quick clean break from all Judaic practices? From everything I've read....I'll site the sources if you wish....there was definitely the reading of the torah in the synagogue.

No I am NOT saying that bu this is NOT the subject.
Verse 1 ............SPIRITUAL gifts not a rabbi reading the Torah
verse 2 NO MAN understandeth him IN THE SPIRIT(not Hebrew) he sepaketh mysteries
verse 4 he edifies himself.................................
verse 14 if I pray in an unknown tongue MY SPIRIT prayeth but MY UNDERSTADING IS UNFRUITFUL...............no reading the Torah here.

The older I live????????????????????????????????

[Kutless]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

No I am NOT saying that bu this is NOT the subject.
Verse 1 ............SPIRITUAL gifts not a rabbi reading the Torah
verse 2 NO MAN understandeth him IN THE SPIRIT(not Hebrew) he sepaketh mysteries
verse 4 he edifies himself.................................
verse 14 if I pray in an unknown tongue MY SPIRIT prayeth but MY UNDERSTADING IS UNFRUITFUL...............no reading the Torah here.

The older I live????????????????????????????????

I'm not trying to be disrespectful sir...but obviously you cannot refrain from the spirit of a smart alec. Might want to chickety check that.

Verses 1-4 do not secure your argument whatsoever. Verse 14 however you bring up a good point. Thanks for discussing it with me in. Even though you personofy the "better than thou" attitude.

[Kutless]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

No I am NOT saying that bu this is NOT the subject.
Verse 1 ............SPIRITUAL gifts not a rabbi reading the Torah
verse 2 NO MAN understandeth him IN THE SPIRIT(not Hebrew) he sepaketh mysteries
verse 4 he edifies himself.................................
verse 14 if I pray in an unknown tongue MY SPIRIT prayeth but MY UNDERSTADING IS UNFRUITFUL...............no reading the Torah here.

The older I live????????????????????????????????

some questions do come up Pastor Epley or who ever.

vs 2...if no man understands then how do we reconcile these tongues with the ones in Acts

vs. 4 How can one edifieth himself with no understanding.

[H2H]

Originally Posted by Kutless

some questions do come up Pastor Epley or who ever.

vs 2...if no man understands then how do we reconcile these tongues with the ones in Acts

vs. 4 How can one edifieth himself with no understanding.

The hearing (and subsequent understanding) was a by product of the event in Acts 2.


The edification of tongues is not often a verbal understanding but more often a heart thing born in prayer. There fore Paul mentions speaking quietly to yourself (and to God) - don't address the congregation with your tongues unless it is to be interpreted.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Kutless

some questions do come up Pastor Epley or who ever.

vs 2...if no man understands then how do we reconcile these tongues with the ones in Acts

vs. 4 How can one edifieth himself with no understanding.

His spirit is edified verses his understanding. God is a being of intellect and emotion God ministers to BOTH. I am sorry if my style seems abrupt to you I am pointed I do not mean to be offensive accept my apologies.

Originally Posted by Kutless

The gospel meaning the truth I suppose?

If a person in the hour of spritual need wonders into a.......oh lets say Baptist church and follows the leading of the Pastor why would he be held accountable?

In my hour of spiritual need I wound up in a Baptist church and got the Holy Ghost (with tongues) while in prayer at the end of a service there,a couple days later met a man there who was One God apostolic, and was exposed to the simple yet profound truth of Acts 2:38.

The Scripture does not say "for as many as sincerely follow the leading of the nearest self-proclaimed pastor are the children of God" but rather it says "for as many as are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God."

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Kutless
And until the Romans......the reading of the Torah in the synagogue......which Gentiles could not understand......which would make it an unknown tongue.


Paul spoke in tongues more than all of us...but he was educated. Educated in Hebrew. But lets not forget the very next verse in which it sounds like he would rather not do it in church.

vs.19 Yet in the church I had rather speak 5 words with my understanding, that by my voice I might reach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.


Chewy mentioned yesterday about people in the mic that rattle off tongues. It would seem by this set of scripture that that isn't biblical?

Kutless,

It's clear in chapt 14 that speaking in tongues is a gift of the Spirit and therefore is supernatural and does not come from learning a language from a book, in school, etc. It's not a natural gift that God gives either. Because Paul is talking about the body of Christ and to become part of that body one must be born again spiritually.

Paul tells us that speaking in tongues edifies the person doing it which is kind of funny when looking at it through your argument you would have to say it means preaching to yourself in another language is edifying! LOL If I was fluent in Hebrew as well as English and spoke/ preached to myself in Hebrew instead of English, how would that edify me?

[Kutless]

Originally Posted by H2H

The hearing (and subsequent understanding) was a by product of the event in Acts 2.


The edification of tongues is not often a verbal understanding but more often a heart thing born in prayer. There fore Paul mentions speaking quietly to yourself (and to God) - don't address the congregation with your tongues unless it is to be interpreted.

si if the miracle in ACTS was the hearing then we could say it was necessary to propogate the gospel at its birth. Multiple languages were necessary. And what a miracle it was.

But what purpose would that hold now?

I've never understood why speaking intongues in prayer was ant better that just using good ole king's english. And if Paul is admonishing us to speak tongues quietly in church then there are a bunch of charismatic/apostolic churches in violation of scripture.

I am still yet to find scripture that supports Heavenly language.