Were tithes ever required by Jesus or the Apostles?

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

If you were running your own business, which would be more helpful? Sporadic or steady income? Do your creditors accept free-spirit-guided payment plans?

The church is not a business. Am I not in dept to pay back a Loan which I did not borrow nor purchase on credit by a binding contract.

The church is not my creditor, I owe nothing financially.

And yes, My giving is of a free-will offering.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I don't know Coop everything we do as Apostolics just burns your hide.
You have a problem with everything. You moved out of Virginia how long ago? Has it been about maybe 4 years? Maybe less? How long have you been out of the U.P.? Hey I seen this stuff enough times to know you guys start out like this and then end up where you don't believe in even the Bible anymore.

No problem Cooper. How about a truce already?

Like I said when the Muslims are teaching your wife the finer points of berka wear I hope you consider us Apostolics and how we didn't deserve your wrath.

Brother Benincasa

This type of posting has earned you a vacation here.

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Originally Posted by Ravens

Oh. . .okay. So the Pastor should support the church entirely on his own so the congregation doesn't have to give anything. How is that even fair?

Originally Posted by COOPER

No, thats not what I meant to convey.

There are two Pastors that I know that have full time jobs and do not depend on tithes and offerings to pay a mortgage, Car payments, food and clothing etc.

Paul used his talent to support his self and not be a burden to the church.

What I am saying is let the people give as they have purposed in their heart.

This would require a Pastor to trust in God and not Tithes.

Tithes are a security to pay the Cost of running a Church building.

And when people give from the heart every one is blessed to give freely.

Thanks for clarifying.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Rico

So the tithes Abraham gave were from a crop?

The tithe Abraham gave were not wages.

The tithe Abraham had nothing to do with the law of tithing that I spoke of as laid out in the Bible.

The tithe Abraham gave was before the tithing law was laid out and, again, was of an increase that was not of his own labor & wage.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

NOW you've got 'im!

Not hardly.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by COOPER

I do wish there were less post like this.

On this subject, more than any other, more time and effort is spent discussing what you didn't say that what you did say.

The discussion ends up being less on the question you asked and more on their perceived consequence of the answer.

Originally Posted by mfblume

I do agree, but one MAY GIVE TITHES and benefit from that promise in the passage.

One may choose to give any amount - even exactly 10 percent (the tithe). The way tithing is so often preached today, one would think that there's some New Testament command to tithe. But in the few sermons I've ever heard on tithing not one pastor has been able to prove that tithing is for the Church. Giving is certainly for the Church but the command to tithe just isn't there. As for the Old Testament law, if you're going to apply the law of the tithe to the Church then you must apply all of the other laws (like those against wearing two different kinds of cloth) - since tithing isn't something that can be compared to things God commanded against like sexual sin, murder, etc.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Chan

One may choose to give any amount - even exactly 10 percent (the tithe). The way tithing is so often preached today, one would think that there's some New Testament command to tithe. But in the few sermons I've ever heard on tithing not one pastor has been able to prove that tithing is for the Church. Giving is certainly for the Church but the command to tithe just isn't there. As for the Old Testament law, if you're going to apply the law of the tithe to the Church then you must apply all of the other laws (like those against wearing two different kinds of cloth) - since tithing isn't something that can be compared to things God commanded against like sexual sin, murder, etc.

I agree totally. The worst error I see is preaching a curse for those who do no tithe, and so people tithe to escape a curse. But JESUS IS OUR ONLY ESCAPE FROM THE CURSE. Gal 3 explicitly states this in relation to LAW-KEEPING and grace. They replace Jesus with paying tithes to escape a curse!

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Ok, let's try again Jewish tradition of tithing was the Jewish way of giving unto the Lord.
Now where did the first century Christians get their traditions of giving?
Since you need word for word spelled out for you allow me to explain.

1) Where did the first century Christians practicing giving that was foreign to the Jews?

2) Did the first century Christians give 100% of all they owned and live totally communal lives?

I await you smart response.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournaal.com

I expect that if you're going to challenge what I said about tithing that your challenge would also be specifically about tithing. Your mentioning giving had nothing to do with what I said.

Now, to answer your post (now that you finally got it right), tithing was part of the Law of Moses and not mere tradition! And, no, it wasn't the same as giving to the Lord. The tithe was mandated while giving was something people chose to do above and beyond the tithe.

Where did the first century Christians learn about giving? From the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles!

You asked, "Did the first century Christians give 100% of all they owned and live totally communal lives?" Other than the Jerusalem Church, there is no evidence that the first century Christians did this and it isn't even clear that the Jerusalem Church had a "totally communal" lifestyle (since they went breaking bread "from house to house" according to Acts 2:46).

Originally Posted by mfblume

I agree totally. The worst error I see is preaching a curse for those who do no tithe, and so people tithe to escape a curse. But JESUS IS OUR ONLY ESCAPE FROM THE CURSE. Gal 3 explicitly states this in relation to LAW-KEEPING and grace. They replace Jesus with paying tithes to escape a curse!

Agreed.