A closer look at John 3:6

[shag]

Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is nborn oagain2 he cannot psee the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born qof water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 rThat which is born of the flesh is sflesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.3


Why didn’t Jesus say, that which is born a flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the water and of the spirit, is spirit?

In other words, why did he not mention being born of water in this verse?
Atleast one response may be, he didn’t need to, it’s part of a sprint birth…
Why the need to in Jn. 3:5 then?

I believe in the teaching and obedience to Jesus name water baptism…can quote every NT verse of such….but I’m not convinced birth of water, is water baptism here.
It is however called a burial, quite different t than birth, in Rom. 6:4.

[diakonos]

Shhh you’re gone gettin trouble

[coksiw]

Nicodemus, a distinguished man, comes to see Jesus. It was customary that the one that has higher authority sets the topic of the conversation. Nicodemus starts with flattering. Jesus didn’t give the chance to Nico to set the topic, Jesus is the one that sets the topic and he jumps from topic to topic in the whole conversation. The part you are concerned about is Jesus going deeper into the be born of the Spirit part, as that’s how it ends: So is everyone who is born of the Spirit

[shag]

Originally Posted by shag

Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is nborn oagain2 he cannot psee the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born qof water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 rThat which is born of the flesh is sflesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.3


Why didn’t Jesus say, that which is born a flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the water and of the spirit, is spirit?

In other words, why did he not mention being born of water in this verse?
Atleast one response may be, he didn’t need to, it’s part of a sprint birth…
Why the need to in Jn. 3:5 then?

I believe in the teaching and obedience to Jesus name water baptism…can quote every NT verse of such….but I’m not convinced birth of water, is water baptism here.
It is however called a burial, quite different t than birth, in Rom. 6:4.

Perhaps because he was simply only drawing the difference between physical birth(water) and spiritual birth(Spirit infilling). Not between physical birth, and water and spirit birth.
Especially if water baptism is said to be a burial, instead of said to be a birth (ROM. 6:4)

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shag

Perhaps because he was simply only drawing the difference between physical birth(water) and spiritual birth(Spirit infilling). Not between physical birth, and water and spirit birth.
Especially if water baptism is said to be a burial, instead of said to be a birth (ROM. 6:4)

You would need to show that "born of water" was understood by 1st century Judeans as a reference to "physical birth" and not a conversion involving mikvah/baptism.

1 Peter 1:3 KJV
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Peter here ties our regeneration to the resurrection of Christ. But Paul says we participate in that resurrection in baptism:

Colossians 2:12-13 KJV
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. [13] And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

So baptism is the means by which we are united to Christ's death AND RESURRECTION, which begets us again ("born again") to a living expectation or hope.

I would say in John 3, born of water is understood of the conversion initiation rite of baptism, understood by Nicodemus and Judeans as being a "new birth" since the initiate is entering a new status as covenanted with God. But that's not enough. An external rite cannot in and of itself grant entrance to God's kingdom. A genuine rebirth in the spirit is needed. Thus John said the One coming after him would baptise with the Holy Ghost. That spiritual regeneration was a mystery to many Judeans apparently as they consistently missed what Jesus was talking about. So He focuses on being born of the Spirit since Nicodemus already understood being born of water.

[Monterrey]

Another support for this being baptism is the New Birth being fulfilled in Acts. This NB topic in John is a supporting Old Testament prophecy of a New Testament fulfillment.

In 4 texts in Acts we see that New Birth was fulfilled in water baptism and Spirit infilling.

Therefore the current premise that water is not fulfilled in baptism just...doesn't hold water.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by shag

Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is nborn oagain2 he cannot psee the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born qof water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 rThat which is born of the flesh is sflesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.3


Why didn’t Jesus say, that which is born a flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the water and of the spirit, is spirit?

In other words, why did he not mention being born of water in this verse?
Atleast one response may be, he didn’t need to, it’s part of a sprint birth…
Why the need to in Jn. 3:5 then?

I believe in the teaching and obedience to Jesus name water baptism…can quote every NT verse of such….but I’m not convinced birth of water, is water baptism here.
It is however called a burial, quite different t than birth, in Rom. 6:4.

I am probably one of the few Jesus name baptizers in the world that thinks John 3:5's reference to being "born of water" is not referring to water baptism. It might be referring to natural birth, but I think it is more likely a synonym for being born of the Spirit, which is the theme here. In John chapters 4 and 7, Jesus begins to liken the indwelling Holy Spirit to water. Thus, it is conceivable that was doing the same thing in John 3.

Having said all that, there are plenty of other verses in the New Testament that can be cited proving that water baptism is for the remission sins and a step towards the new birth.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by shag

Perhaps because he was simply only drawing the difference between physical birth(water) and spiritual birth(Spirit infilling). Not between physical birth, and water and spirit birth.
Especially if water baptism is said to be a burial, instead of said to be a birth (ROM. 6:4)

Agreed.

[Bowas]

Jesus uses the natural, to explain spiritual applications.

Consider the following:

Plant life:

Seed planted- Seed watered- Seed enters into the air

Human life:

Seed planted- Comes forth through water- Enters into air

Spiritual Life:

Word (seed) planted- Water baptism- Spirit infilling


The same principle in all life.


Planted, watered, made alive.


(feel free to improve on the analogy) lol

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by shag

Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is nborn oagain2 he cannot psee the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born qof water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 rThat which is born of the flesh is sflesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.3


Why didn’t Jesus say, that which is born a flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the water and of the spirit, is spirit?

In other words, why did he not mention being born of water in this verse?
Atleast one response may be, he didn’t need to, it’s part of a sprint birth…
Why the need to in Jn. 3:5 then?

I believe in the teaching and obedience to Jesus name water baptism…can quote every NT verse of such….but I’m not convinced birth of water, is water baptism here.
It is however called a burial, quite different t than birth, in Rom. 6:4.

IMO. The key is to understand what is ‘The Kingdom of God’.