Gino Jennings End Times

[peter83]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I guess you don't know what I'm asking to answer me adequately.

I was not specific to you?
Brother tell me what you want to hear?
You ask me if i believe that salvation is a form of Resturection. And i tell you that is the Resturection itself. (that is salvation, )
Is this nor specific?
(But if you mean the experience the New birth, we are dead through Christ and like Christ resurrected of the dead we also walk in a new life ,this is what makes us entering or better having hope to what Salvation is
So or you don't know what Salvation means or you wanted me to say something else.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by peter83

I was not specific to you?
Brother tell me what you want to hear?
You ask me if i believe that salvation is a form of Resturection. And i tell you that is the Resturection itself. (that is salvation, )
Is this nor specific?
(But if you mean the experience the New birth, we are dead through Christ and like Christ resurrected of the dead we also walk in a new life ,this is what makes us entering or better having hope to what Salvation is
So or you don't know what Salvation means or you wanted me to say something else.

I know it's salvation means. But I kept quoting Romans chapter 6 verse 13 to you where Paul said were alive from the dead. What you started to say at the end of your statement above is what I was saying.

It's not that I want you to say anything, I just want you to answer my question of whether you think salvation is a form of Resurrection.

When you said we're dead through Christ to walk in a new life that is a form of Resurrection. That's what I was asking you. That's what I'm saying the first resurrection in Revelation 20 is talking about.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I know it's salvation means. But I kept quoting Romans chapter 6 verse 13 to you where Paul said were alive from the dead. What you started to say at the end of your statement above is what I was saying.

It's not that I want you to say anything, I just want you to answer my question of whether you think salvation is a form of Resurrection.

When you said we're dead through Christ to walk in a new life that is a form of Resurrection. That's what I was asking you. That's what I'm saying the first resurrection in Revelation 20 is talking about.

Thank you for clarifying (but what you want to tell me ?)
So that is New Birth. You are dead through Christ for sin and now with the Spirit you walk a new life like a new person.
"as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment' . After that is what the Bible call second death. Now Christ died this death for us ,so we are "dead through the law" in order to accomplish our judgement only with the first death (1 = 1 =2 so is considered as 1 death through Christ and 2 death the physical) (first death is judgment ,while second is condemnation, Christ took the punishment of our condemnation ).
Now Salvation means exactly that escape we will finally enjoy from the 2 death.
Υes we can say salvation from sin, from death, from flesh, from satan etc. because the word Salvation means also "therapy" But the Salvation is what we will enjoy after death at the first resurrection.
11 And that, knowing the time, that now [it is] high time to awake out of sleep: for now [is] our salvation nearer than when we believed.

but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling
1 Τhes.5 8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. 9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
2 Tim.2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 [It is] a faithful saying: For if we be dead with [him], we shall also live with [him]: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with [him]: if we deny [him], he also will deny us (we shall live with Him, we shall reign with Him, we will reign we will.)
Tit.2: 11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,7 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;8
(Slvation of sin: we lieve NOW in THIS PRESENT WORLD a holy life with good works etc. and WAIT and having HOPE for HIM to COME and enjoy the Slavation (first Resurrection)
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Receiving the end of your faith, [even] the salvation of [your] souls.
And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God
Brother you see what is Salvation and from what we are saved? That is our hope! we are not appointed (future event) to death (2nd death, because the 1st is a judgment for all) . We will be saved from His Wrath and come back to life with new glorified bodies,
As for the 1st and and resurrection you dont need other Scriptures, i already write you many, i dont know if you will read those but please do.
Because you understand that" 1)we will be resurrected for eternal life and 2)they will stand on the throne of judgment to enter unto the second death.
actually there is only One resurrection for life and one for Eternal Death... that is eternal life too, but not in the Presence of the Lord.
amen, peace to you.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by peter83

Thank you for clarifying (but what you want to tell me ?)
So that is New Birth. You are dead through Christ for sin and now with the Spirit you walk a new life like a new person.
"as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment' . After that is what the Bible call second death. Now Christ died this death for us ,so we are "dead through the law" in order to accomplish our judgement only with the first death (1 = 1 =2 so is considered as 1 death through Christ and 2 death the physical) (first death is judgment ,while second is condemnation, Christ took the punishment of our condemnation ).
Now Salvation means exactly that escape we will finally enjoy from the 2 death.
?es we can say salvation from sin, from death, from flesh, from satan etc. because the word Salvation means also "therapy" But the Salvation is what we will enjoy after death at the first resurrection.
11 And that, knowing the time, that now [it is] high time to awake out of sleep: for now [is] our salvation nearer than when we believed.

but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling
1 ?hes.5 8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. 9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
2 Tim.2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 [It is] a faithful saying: For if we be dead with [him], we shall also live with [him]: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with [him]: if we deny [him], he also will deny us (we shall live with Him, we shall reign with Him, we will reign we will.)
Tit.2: 11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,7 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;8
(Slvation of sin: we lieve NOW in THIS PRESENT WORLD a holy life with good works etc. and WAIT and having HOPE for HIM to COME and enjoy the Slavation (first Resurrection)
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Receiving the end of your faith, [even] the salvation of [your] souls.
And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God
Brother you see what is Salvation and from what we are saved? That is our hope! we are not appointed (future event) to death (2nd death, because the 1st is a judgment for all) . We will be saved from His Wrath and come back to life with new glorified bodies,
As for the 1st and and resurrection you dont need other Scriptures, i already write you many, i dont know if you will read those but please do.
Because you understand that" 1)we will be resurrected for eternal life and 2)they will stand on the throne of judgment to enter unto the second death.
actually there is only One resurrection for life and one for Eternal Death... that is eternal life too, but not in the Presence of the Lord.
amen, peace to you.

so now take everything you just told me, which I agree with in Essence, and say that our Salvation, which is resurrection from sin and death, is the first resurrection. And then the second Resurrection is when our bodies come from the grave, or if we're alive our mortal bodies are changed into a mortal ones. Then we go to the white Throne judgment to live forever eternally. That's what I believe.

If we're saved and we're in the first resurrection because of Salvation, which is what the first resurrection is, we won't experience the second death which is going into the Lake of Fire.

I've read and studied heavily all the scriptures you mentioned when you talk with me throughout these days. So I'm very familiar with them, and I believe that my perspective takes into consideration all of them and as what those scriptures were trying to tell us.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by mfblume

so now take everything you just told me, which I agree with in Essence, and say that our Salvation, which is resurrection from sin and death, is the first resurrection. And then the second Resurrection is when our bodies come from the grave, or if we're alive our mortal bodies are changed into a mortal ones. Then we go to the white Throne judgment to live forever eternally. That's what I believe.

If we're saved and we're in the first resurrection because of Salvation, which is what the first resurrection is, we won't experience the second death which is going into the Lake of Fire.

I've read and studied heavily all the scriptures you mentioned when you talk with me throughout these days. So I'm very familiar with them, and I believe that my perspective takes into consideration all of them and as what those scriptures were trying to tell us.

ι will try to see them from your perspective (actually i can question all the interpetation of Revelation together, post-tribulation,7 yers, etc. are all under question, but NOT the Hope of all Saints under the sun!!!)

but i tell you that in order to have part in the first resurrection we have to die first. and i mean the physical death.
Τhe New Birth is not real death, i say that because this is our redemption (He buy us) from the second death. That is why you still aponted to death.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
reckon ,think us, ques, you self AS dead.
**(dont sthrough me a stone now i know you are not ever-super-jelous so i dont worry. i mean dont misunderstand me ,if it sounds like i "downlow the meaning of the Cross" No! i just want to see the differences of:
"i am saved because God forgive my sins and gave me His Spirit, BUT i dont know if tomorrow i will continue to faith and if He will live His SPirit in me" vs "; 7 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished [my] course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
You see ? that is Salvation finished and notice Paul did not said "i go to take the crown". He is still waiting for "that day"

see and study for your self the difference between:
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; 6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
vs
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Anyway , read the entire chapter of Corinthians and ...the text speaks itself, Our resurrection did not came, firstborn is Christ and we that belong to Him ,we are the 1st (and last) resurrection.
Because the rest of the dead will not come to life but to be codemned for the 2nd death.
Till we change this body and take the new, we can not inhered the kingdom
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.
Peace to you.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by peter83

? will try to see them from your perspective (actually i can question all the interpetation of Revelation together, post-tribulation,7 yers, etc. are all under question, but NOT the Hope of all Saints under the sun!!!)

but i tell you that in order to have part in the first resurrection we have to die first. and i mean the physical death.
?he New Birth is not real death, i say that because this is our redemption (He buy us) from the second death. That is why you still aponted to death.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
reckon ,think us, ques, you self AS dead.
**(dont sthrough me a stone now i know you are not ever-super-jelous so i dont worry. i mean dont misunderstand me ,if it sounds like i "downlow the meaning of the Cross" No! i just want to see the differences of:
"i am saved because God forgive my sins and gave me His Spirit, BUT i dont know if tomorrow i will continue to faith and if He will live His SPirit in me" vs "; 7 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished [my] course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
You see ? that is Salvation finished and notice Paul did not said "i go to take the crown". He is still waiting for "that day"

see and study for your self the difference between:
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; 6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
vs
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Anyway , read the entire chapter of Corinthians and ...the text speaks itself, Our resurrection did not came, firstborn is Christ and we that belong to Him ,we are the 1st (and last) resurrection.
Because the rest of the dead will not come to life but to be codemned for the 2nd death.
Till we change this body and take the new, we can not inhered the kingdom
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.
Peace to you.

New Birth is not death. New Birth is resurrection from the dead because, before people are born again, they're dead in trespasses and sins

[peter83]

Originally Posted by mfblume

New Birth is not death. New Birth is resurrection from the dead because, before people are born again, they're dead in trespasses and sins

Of course.in order to live again one has to die first.p
We reckon our selfs dead for sin but alive unto God through Jesus.
Our old self died through Christ. We buried our dead self with him at baptism abnd we walk on a new life..
,So we escape second death if we stay in faith and wait for Him . After the first death we will live again , that is first Resturection. While the others will enter second death.

[Esaias]

Sin - first death
Baptism - second death
End of life - third death
Lake of fire - fourth death

Gee...

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Sin - first death
Baptism - second death
End of life - third death
Lake of fire - fourth death

Gee...

and 4-5 resurrections
first death = physical
second death=eternal lake of fire (because of sins)
Baptism= Jesus payment for the second death. no?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by peter83

Of course.in order to live again one has to die first.p
We reckon our selfs dead for sin but alive unto God through Jesus.
Our old self died through Christ. We buried our dead self with him at baptism abnd we walk on a new life..
,So we escape second death if we stay in faith and wait for Him . After the first death we will live again , that is first Resturection. While the others will enter second death.

I agree with everything you said except one little part. After the first death we will live again but it's the second Resurrection where we live again. So if you just change that one part that you said above then you and I would agree perfectly.

Yes. We have to die before we can resurrect. But the fact is that all the time when we are sinners we're dead. We're already dead when we first hear the gospel, because we're dead in trespasses and sins. Two things that Jesus experienced according to Ephesians chapter 1 happen to us.

Number one. Jesus was raised from the dead. Ephesians chapter 2 verses 1 to 5 says that even when we were dead in trespasses and sins, God quickened us from the dead.

Number two. Jesus was Seated on the throne above all powers. Well. Eph. Chapter 2 Verse 6 says we were seated together with him in Heavenly places.

And those two points are actually mentioned in Revelation chapter 20 when it says they were Seated on Thrones, and they were a part of the first resurrection. After it mentions the people sitting on Thrones, then it mentions other people that were beheaded, and then it mentions a third people that didn't take the mark of the beast. These are three different groups of people who all have part in the first resurrection. Salvation.

The people Seated on Thrones in Revelation chapter 20 who are part of the first resurrection are the ones who are seated with him in Heavenly places when they're saved. Ephesians chapter 2 talks about us being quickened from the death of trespasses and sins as well as being seated with Jesus, and that all happens in Salvation.

We're already dead in trespasses and sins when we hear the gospel. But when we believe and obey the gospel, we get baptized into Jesus death and we're buried with him in his burial, and then we rise to walk in newness of life. That rising in New Life is the first resurrection.

Then we serve the Lord, and if we died before Jesus comes, our bodies will be raised in the second Resurrection which takes us to the white throne. Those who serve Jesus and are still alive at the second coming, will have their bodies changed from Mortal to immortality ones, and they will rise in the second Resurrection as well.

But the first resurrection in Revelation chapter 20 is salvation. We were dead already in trespasses and sins, and when we hear the gospel and Obey It We rise in Resurrection to walk in newness of life.

The ones seated on Thrones already, before you read about the people beheaded and before you read about the people who don't take the mark of the beast, are the ones who have been saved since the day of Pentecost up until that time. And the ones who are beheaded represent the Old Testament people, because John was beheaded and was the greatest of the Old Testament prophets. John wasn't in the kingdom of God until Jesus actually ascended into heaven and then made atonement, thereby causing all the Old Testament Saints to suddenly be in the kingdom in the first resurrection as well.

And the third group of people who are in the first resurrection of the ones who resisted the mark of the beast. You're saved if you don't take the mark of the beast because you wouldn't take it due to your salvation. That happened in the first century when Nero was commanding everybody to worship him as a God, and made a statue of himself at the Coliseum which was called The Colossus.