"Beards are sin!" False doctrine?

[Amanah]

Chris, you sat in a trinnie house church for how many years explaining to your kids what you felt was truth.

You are an intelligent man and you already know what is preached in Apostolic Churches, so it is unlikely there are going to be doctrinal surprises for you.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

So, you're saying that James is warning not to show favoritism. He used the EXAMPLE of showing favoritism over clothing that indicates wealth or poverty. But since he didn't mention beards specifically... you think James would be A-Okay if you argued that he had no right to preach or minister and that had to sit down because of his beard, while you let others without beards just preach away, sing the choir, teach Sunday school, etc.???

Sure, whatever you say.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Chris, you sat in a trinnie house church for how many years explaining to your kids what you felt was truth.

But they allowed beards!

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Beards are low on the list... Maybe. Maybe not.

Sorry I was not more clear -- personally, for me, beards are far down the list of important things. Very, very far down.

Originally Posted by Aquila

-I have a family of four.
-I've decided that we should leave our house church network.
-We need a church, an Apostolic church.
-I'm a man with a beard.
-The only Apostolic churches around me are anti-beard.
-I see nothing in my Bible supporting such a teaching.
-Since such a teaching is unbiblical, it is a tradition of man.
-Since it is taught as binding, it is a doctrine.
-If they have this unbiblical doctrine, how many more do they have?
-I find myself just as leery about the Apostolic churches around me who are in false doctrines of legalism as I am other churches around me who are in false doctrine as it applies to other elements of Christian belief and living.

What you find to be low on the list of important things... I see as an indicator that deeper issues and false teachings exist. You're saying, "Oh, it's only one chunk of floating ice." I'm saying, "No. False teachings like these are only the tip of the iceberg."

Okay.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Chris, you sat in a trinnie house church for how many years explaining to your kids what you felt was truth.

You are an intelligent man and you already know what is preached in Apostolic Churches, so it is unlikely there are going to be doctrinal surprises for you.

Well, I kind of hoped the Apostolics in my area would have gravitated more towards what the Bible teaches.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

But they allowed beards!

Actually, yes. They are more welcoming to men with beards than the Apostolic churches in my area.

[Dordrecht]

Wow, over 300 posts about beards!
Amazing!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

So if I take some kind of hormones I might be able to grow a decent beard?

Wow, I think I might look into that, so that I can join Aquila and bro Michael.

You might not have hormones.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Taking such a stand, being vocal about it, denouncing legalisms involving both shaving and required beards isn't so much to win over or effect those who believe in these false doctrines. It is to call attention to the error publically so that fewer embrace their notions without question, and to help bring reconciliation and healing to those whose lives, ministries, dreams, and passions were crushed by some legalistic pastor with a passion for or against something as truly meaningless as a beard.

Bro, these brothers have Bible for their beard wearing, they believe it is a part of manliness. They believe the beard marks maturity, also that gray marks eldership (as old ) so no dying the hair. Beards are untrimmed, but hair on the top of the head remains short as high and tight. The rest of your above quote is a bit dramatic so get your T levels checked. Saints embrace their notions without question? Let me ask you a question? Do you read what I post? Did you read and UNDERSTAND what I posted to you. Bro, they have a Bible, the people in the Bible talk about bearded people. Jesus is described as having a beard, and it being torn out of His cheek. Aaron has an oily long beard. Also they notice that the men when they start coming of age naturally grow a beard? Bro, What are these people accepting without question? Another thing, you want to help bring reconciliation and healing to those whose lives, ministries, dreams, and passions were crushed by some legalistic pastor with a passion for or against something as truly meaningless as a beard. Again, you didn't get it, what I posted was not about religious basket cases who were unknowingly duped into the Unification Church. These people knew FULL WELL what they were getting themselves into. They were all of a sudden have the beard teaching sprung on them. They sure didn't catch a beating from a pulpit how they better start growing their beard, or else. I can't stress this stuff enough, you know, whether you like it or not, there are people in Pentecost who understand their standards of separation. You know what else? They really don't care what you think about them. They aren't legalists, because it isn't Mosaic law keeping, they do it because they understand it, and it is going to make them any more saved, but it is the fruit of their salvation. You want to debate that? Go right ahead, but they have their arguments also against what you are doing.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Ministering in the rear of the flock is often the most rewarding of ministries.

You mean a parking lot prophet? Or the disgruntled who wants to lead from the pews? Who wants to liberate the people and tell them how their elders are not only wrong about beards, but are trying to manipulate them? How the ministry doesn't love them, how the elders are really putting everyone under spiritual abuse, and that you really are the one with the golden keys to freedom? Bro, that only works with saints who are struggling, but not over standards of dress. They have personal issues, that the SJW who is trying to sow tares among the wheat, have zero clues about. You might get them out of the so called legalist church, but what then? You going to sign the papers of adoption? Start your own church? It sadly is a snowball effect, because while you thought you were bringing them sweet cane of liberty, their issues concerning standards of dress, and attire was the very least of their issues. After a while (of you adopting them) find out that wearing a beard, long sleeves,long overalls didn't bother them one bit. But now you got what you wanted, a disciple. No, Chris, the adage is still true, "when the student is ready, the teacher will appear." If the soil isn't made ready by JESUS you are going to be hitting nothing more than stumps and rocks.

Originally Posted by Aquila

You see the sheep that were battered and broken by circumstance, who are failing to keep up. You see those who have given up. You see those who have wondered form the flock through temptation or frustration.

You know, the above starts to sound like some mantra, which gets repeated over, and over again. Like a Mormon Bicycle Missionary repeating, "The Book of Mormon is True and Joseph Smith is a Prophet." What you posted above is the chief reason to not take people from other churches. Had a Baptist who wanted to come to our church, I told him no, stay in his church and make it right. He had a fallen out with the elders, not over doctrine, or book, chapter, and verse, but over personal reasons. I told him you don't even know what we believe. No, you need to straighten out your relationships. Because taking that brother, would of just caused problems, mainly for him and his family.
Sometimes people forget we are on a forum, and this is where we spit and whittle, but this isn't church. taking the SJW show on the road has major consequences. People get pulled out of churches and then you reject them because you don't have the time to care and feed them. They end up out in the cold, with their children.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I know it seems so small... but I know grown men on this forum who have beards. And they would weep like babies with healing tears if they were apologized to for all the unnecessary and unbiblical rejection, slander, character assassination, and denunciations they've faced merely for wearing a beard.

Bro, I'm real sorry, I wasn't raised in church. I was raised around some hard guys. Apologies weren't handed out. My moto is don't tell me your sorry, show me your sorry. That's all, we are supposed to be men, we are supposed to be the hunter gatherers. Shedding tears, I have shed my share, but I don't need an apology from my brother, or my other. People know what they are doing. But, back to the meat of my original post. THE PEOPLE LIKE WHAT THEY ARE DOING MAN! Yo u don't like it move on, and let someone else sit in the pew. No hard feelings, these people want their men in their church to wear beards. I was clean shaven, they wished for me to be and believe as they. I had a beard ever since I hit puberty, facial hair started to grow. My dad always had a fu manchu (not the bull) but the moustache. By the time I met brother Dan , I wasn't going to grow a beard again, and I didn't see the beard as mandertory, not even a hint. They believe what they believe. Was there anyone huddled in the fetal position over this teaching? Wanting Lois to write an article on her spiritual abuse website concerning their woes? NO! They like it, they actually want it, they see it in the Bible, they feel that it is natural for the man to grow the facial hair to whatever length it wants to grow. The main thing I'm getting at, is that I was told all this from jump street. Therefore I make a decision whether or not I want to fly the united skies with them. You see, if I would of joined them with the thoughts of changing them, then that's my problem. I the big dummy. They already believe what they believe. I don't join to teach their young people over at the Sunday buffet, or grab a struggling couple to shed my rays of light upon them. If I had disagreements I took it to the elders, and without any of their people around. Because it is pretty hard trying to remove a size 12 Red Wing boot out of your rear end. Decent and in ministerial order. So, these people, LIKE, LOVE, what they are doing.

Originally Posted by Aquila

When I started wearing a beard it wasn't out of rebellion. It was because Christina thought I looked more "distinguished" instead of so "baby faced". I've always had a baby face.

Please honestly, no offense, but that's because your fat, and you have a fat face. Try a Paleo diet. You will shred, and shed your "baby fat?"

Originally Posted by Aquila

The facial hair was a nice look.

Yeah, homeless guys look so bella.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

It also helped me see myself in a new light. After all the drama of family trauma, military trauma, church abuse, a divorce, financial ruin, etc. to see myself differently was kinda healing. I had weathered the storm. God carried me through. Life happened, and I survived. That old me, that old life, it's gone. New me. A new me who has fallen even more in love with Jesus than the old me.

So, can you accept someone who shaves off their beard for the same reasons?

Originally Posted by Aquila

Think about it, since I was from an ultra-conservative background, I had looked the same for decades. After all I had been through, I needed a change.

I had a beard for as long as I could remember, so when I changed, I shaved.
Can you accept that as well as your growing your garden?

Originally Posted by Aquila

I'm not saying everyone does. I'm saying, I did. Growing my beard out symbolically represented my letting go of so much pain.

Then you will understand fully if you remove the word "growing" to shaving.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I was no longer the abused boy who was brutally beaten as child. I was no longer the crisp, pressed, and shaved soldier I had become as a young man. I was no longer the subjugated, trapped, and spiritually bound clean shaven ultra-con legalist. I was no longer the failure of a husband. The change helped me look into the mirror and see someone new. Someone fresh. Someone older. Someone that accepted the past and closed the book on it. A man with a new life.

Hey, easy with the legalist, you know what I think is the most prevalent form of legalism. It sure has nothing to do with a shirt, shoes, and a tie. It is all about what Jesus said, it was acting the part on the outside but being a devil on the inside. I have had my share of common dress Christians who were the biggest devils to ever to walk upright. Evil doesn't need long uncut hair, and a dress, to snatch your paper boat down the sewer. Most of the time is takes the shape of a clown. In mainstream Christianity sadly that is what you have.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Then, feeling I visited a local Apostolic church. One I hoped was more moderate based on what I had heard.

Do I really need to go into detail about what happened within 10 minutes of being there and seeing a couple people who knew me way back when? After dealing with the mind numbing teasing, whispering, and eventual harassment over my beard... I realized something. At what point do I refuse to allow them to own me?

Bro, I'm the wrong guy to tell these religious sad tales of woe. My eschatology gets brought up, out of the clear blue. So, when people start to lose a discussion with me they pull that out of left field. We could be talking about whatever, they say something about my eschatology. Listen, you got to get over all of that. Getting called a heretic by people you love, having a close brother call you when your daughter is born and tell you that God is going to kill her because of your eschatology? All I told the brother is well, let's pray. Mind numbing teasing? Seriously? Bro, no offense but check the T levels, and make sure you don't drink out of bottles made with BHT.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Some say, "But it's just a beard." No it isn't. It's far bigger than that. I'm reminded of a story...

Originally Posted by Aquila

2 Samuel 23:11-12 English Standard Version (ESV)
11 And next to him was Shammah, the son of Agee the Hararite. The Philistines gathered together at Lehi, where there was a plot of ground full of lentils, and the men fled from the Philistines. 12 But he took his stand in the midst of the plot and defended it and struck down the Philistines, and the Lord worked a great victory.

Here, a man took a stand. He'd not be pushed around any more. Yes, it was only a plot of land with a pea patch. Sure, many might say, "Why risk your life Shammah? It's only a pea patch!" They were right. It was only a pea patch. But it was... his pea patch. And when something is yours and you have very little else... no matter how seemingly insignificant it might seem. It's worth fighting and dying for.

I know that it's only a beard. But... it is my beard. And I refuse to surrender to the bullying, slander, character assassination, and pressure to become subjugated to the unbiblical standard of overreaching, and spiritually abusive, human authority.

And if having something as small an issue as a beard makes me an outcast... if having a beard makes my church reject me... if having a beard makes them treat me like a second class citizen in the church... then it isn't me who has the big problem with this little ol' beard. It's... them.

Sometimes you have to take a stand and defend your pea patch.

Well, I guess you know will have a bit more charity for those who keep standards.