The Sabbath Day, Should You Keep or not Keep?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I'm sorry if your favorite commentaries refuse to follow the simple grammar of the text, just like they do with John 1:1 and many other inconvenient passages.

But if you want to read a scholar of a different opinion, try this:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3266938

Can you list all the scholars who take this approach. I saw your historicist kind among my commentaries agreed with me on this. I already noted the names mentioned in your link. So, how common is that idea?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Can you list all the scholars who take this approach. I saw your historicist kind among my commentaries agreed with me on this. I already noted the names mentioned in your link. So, how common is that idea?

What names? You did not mention the author of the article, in your previous posts, to my knowledge.

Did you read the whole article?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Paul speaks of those who are "worthy" of death. You're right. But I don't believe in advocating that a civil government impose such penalties. Those laws belonged to ancient Israel. I believe those ordinances were nailed to the cross. Those who realize how Christ's finished work delivers them through abolishing those penalties are those who truly understand Grace.

I can glean from those laws that such things are sin. But, I can breadthe a sigh of relief, knowing that grace is available for the sinner, and I'm an advocate of that grace with a message of reconciliation. I need not even need to consider such penalties as even a remote option or possibility. They are abolished. Grace, love, forgiveness, is now the higher ethic in play. For the sake of the sinner.

Notice, no penalties of that nature were carved in stone. They were temporary.

If the penalties for sin were temporary, and Christ abolished the penalties on the cross, then since Calvary there has been no penalty for sin, and therefore all mankind has been saved.

Furthermore, if there is no penalty for sin, then Paul was wrong when he said "those who do such things are worthy of death". To be worthy of death means to to deserve death. But if the penalty for sin (death) has been abolished (by Christ, no less), then nobody is "worthy" or deserving of death (unless it be in our own personal opinion, which is NOT the standard for what men do or do not deserve).

Since you do not want God's laws enforced, that means you not only support the "right" of sodomites to practice their sin, but you also support the "right" of kidnappers to do their thing, bestialists doing their thing, adulterers doing their thing, etc. In other words, antinomianism supports a society in which God is not reverenced and obeyed. That's called anarchy and libertinism, and is exactly the trajectory this nation has been on for some time now. And the result?

People don't even know which bathroom to go to anymore. Divorce on demand, broken homes, immorality, crime, corruption, you name it, everything and anything goes. Because there is now no standard to go by except personal opinions.

But Paul said this:

Romans 13:1-4 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. (2) Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. (3) For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: (4) For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

And Peter said this:

1 Peter 2:13-15 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; (14) Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. (15) For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

Civil government is ordained for the express purpose of punishing evil. The libertinist antinomian anarchist view that God's law should be relegated to the dust of history books has produced the very conditions society now finds itself in - Christ-hating anarchy and rebellion.

The antinomian position is self refuting and self contradictory (as I just showed) not to mention completely and totally unbiblical.

"When you pray, pray thus: ... Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven..." Is it God's will for sin to go unpunished? Is it God's will in heaven for sin to be left up to "personal opinion"? no, it is not. and we are to pray and desire that the will of God in heaven is to be done on earth.

And what does that mean, "God's will in heaven"?

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

The will of God in heaven includes the Divinely revealed wrath of God against sin.

There are no gay pride parades in heaven, there is no divorce in heaven, there is no adultery in heaven. We are to pray and desire that such conditions should prevail here, in this life, on this earth, as well as they prevail in heaven.

That is theonomy. That is the Gospel of the Kingdom of God. God is King, He has a Law:

Isaiah 33:22 For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

If the penalties for sin were temporary, and Christ abolished the penalties on the cross, then since Calvary there has been no penalty for sin, and therefore all mankind has been saved.

Furthermore, if there is no penalty for sin, then Paul was wrong when he said "those who do such things are worthy of death". To be worthy of death means to to deserve death. But if the penalty for sin (death) has been abolished (by Christ, no less), then nobody is "worthy" or deserving of death (unless it be in our own personal opinion, which is NOT the standard for what men do or do not deserve).

Since you do not want God's laws enforced, that means you not only support the "right" of sodomites to practice their sin, but you also support the "right" of kidnappers to do their thing, bestialists doing their thing, adulterers doing their thing, etc. In other words, antinomianism supports a society in which God is not reverenced and obeyed. That's called anarchy and libertinism, and is exactly the trajectory this nation has been on for some time now. And the result?

People don't even know which bathroom to go to anymore. Divorce on demand, broken homes, immorality, crime, corruption, you name it, everything and anything goes. Because there is now no standard to go by except personal opinions.

But Paul said this:

Romans 13:1-4 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. (2) Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. (3) For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: (4) For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

And Peter said this:

1 Peter 2:13-15 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; (14) Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. (15) For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

Civil government is ordained for the express purpose of punishing evil. The libertinist antinomian anarchist view that God's law should be relegated to the dust of history books has produced the very conditions society now finds itself in - Christ-hating anarchy and rebellion.

The antinomian position is self refuting and self contradictory (as I just showed) not to mention completely and totally unbiblical.

"When you pray, pray thus: ... Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven..." Is it God's will for sin to go unpunished? Is it God's will in heaven for sin to be left up to "personal opinion"? no, it is not. and we are to pray and desire that the will of God in heaven is to be done on earth.

And what does that mean, "God's will in heaven"?

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

The will of God in heaven includes the Divinely revealed wrath of God against sin.

There are no gay pride parades in heaven, there is no divorce in heaven, there is no adultery in heaven. We are to pray and desire that such conditions should prevail here, in this life, on this earth, as well as they prevail in heaven.

That is theonomy. That is the Gospel of the Kingdom of God. God is King, He has a Law:

Isaiah 33:22 For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us.

I'm just curious, have you ever committed a sin worthy of death?

Murder (Exodus 21:12-14; Leviticus 24:17,21)
Attacking or cursing a parent (Exodus 21:15,17)
Disobedience to parents (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)
Kidnapping (Exodus 21:16)
Failure to confine a dangerous animal, resulting in death (Exodus 21:28-29)
Witchcraft and sorcery (Exodus 22:18, Leviticus 20:27, Deuteronomy 13:5, 1 Samuel 28:9)
Human sacrifice (Leviticus 20:2-5)
Sex with an animal (Exodus 22:19, Leviticus 20:16)
Doing work on the Sabbath (Exodus 31:14, 35:2, Numbers 15:32-36)
Incest (Leviticus 18:6-18, 20:11-12,14,17,19-21)
Adultery (Leviticus 20:10; Deuteronomy 22:22)
Homosexual acts (Leviticus 20:13)
Prostitution by a priest's daughter (Leviticus 21:9)
Blasphemy (Leviticus 24:14,16, 23)
False prophecy (Deuteronomy 18:20)
Perjury in capital cases (Deuteronomy 19:16-19)
Refusing to obey a decision of a judge or priest (Deuteronomy 17:12)
False claim of a woman's virginity at time of marriage (Deuteronomy 22:13-21)
Sex between a woman pledged to be married and a man other than her betrothed (Deuteronomy 22:23-24)

I'm saddened to admit, I have. Even today, I'm not always the man I want to be. I just thank God I'm no longer the man I was.

[Aquila]

When it comes to Theonomy, I've studied the works of Rushdoony.

It amazes me how everyone who believes in theonomy assumes that such a theonomic system would entirely agree with their theological positions and practice. The doctrine is essentially used by more radical elements of the Christian religion to encourage and justify efforts to advance a theonomic/theocratic government. Essentially undermining representative democracy, and paving the way for antichrist. I see it, it's a doctrine of devils that quite a few good men have fallen for.

[Aquila]

While I believe that the cross abrogated the temporal penalties as required in the ancient nation state of Israel, even sealing that nation's doom, the eternal penalties of such sins remain.

[Raffi]

[QUOTE=Aquila;1519626]Sure, I'll share the way me and my family observes it. But first, I want to present some explanatory information so that you can see where I'm coming from as I answer your questions.

This commandment is rather simple. It only asks:

- The word "Sabbath" is based on the Hebrew word meaning: "to stop, rest, cease, peace".
- That we are to remember the Sabbath day, and keep it separated for rest, worship, and devotions.
- It is to be the 7th day.
- One isn't to perform "work" on the Sabbath. (The purpose is to avoid distraction from devotion. Man tends to put work and advancement ahead of worship and devotion. Jesus illustrated how it is okay to do good on the Sabbath, even if it is work. So, I avoid anything that would bring remuneration my way.)
- I encourage all within my house hold to rest from distractions that might hinder rest, worship, and devotions.
- In keeping the Sabbath we affirm God as Creator.
- In keeping the Sabbath we rest and enjoy the fruit of our labors as the LORD did in the beginning.

Brother Aquila,
I appreciate your positive opinion and support of a practical keeping of the 7th Day Sabbath. I truly pray you always have that. And while I personally disagree with the sharp dichotomy that the Adventists made between the Asaret Hadberim (Decalogue) and the greater corpus of The Torah, I want you to know that I do agree with the spiritual aspects of Sabbath-keeping that you highlight.


I myself used to do as you do, keeping Sabbath privately in my home with my wife and kids while simultaneously going to a Sunday-keeping assembly. I did that for a number of years before I found that there were other Sabbath-keeping Apostolic Pentecostal groups out there.

And also like you, we used to hold a Friday Night Jamboree over each other's houses for years, even before I officially went Sabbatarian. We'd have all the old timers and the young ones get their guitars and banjos and keyboards and harmonicas . . . and whatever, and we'd all get together on Friday nights and jam together praising The Lord all night long, singing hymns and Gospel songs and old timey folk tunes. We still do similar things like that in out fellowship even to this day.

Also, emphasizing that Sabbath-keeping is a delight rather than a burden. Bravo. Enjoying the Sabbath DOES include reducing a heavy emphasis on the congregational ritualism and the business of a megachurch-type environment, and put the emphasis on devotion, family altar, and wholesome, enjoyable, quality family time. Though I cannot discount that Scripture DOES command "convocation" (i.e. assembly) as part of Sabbath observance as well (Leviticus 23:1-4; Leviticus 19:30; Leviticus 26:2).

Peace

[Aquila]

[QUOTE=Raffi;1519842]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Sure, I'll share the way me and my family observes it. But first, I want to present some explanatory information so that you can see where I'm coming from as I answer your questions.

This commandment is rather simple. It only asks:

- The word "Sabbath" is based on the Hebrew word meaning: "to stop, rest, cease, peace".
- That we are to remember the Sabbath day, and keep it separated for rest, worship, and devotions.
- It is to be the 7th day.
- One isn't to perform "work" on the Sabbath. (The purpose is to avoid distraction from devotion. Man tends to put work and advancement ahead of worship and devotion. Jesus illustrated how it is okay to do good on the Sabbath, even if it is work. So, I avoid anything that would bring remuneration my way.)
- I encourage all within my house hold to rest from distractions that might hinder rest, worship, and devotions.
- In keeping the Sabbath we affirm God as Creator.
- In keeping the Sabbath we rest and enjoy the fruit of our labors as the LORD did in the beginning.

Brother Aquila,
I appreciate your positive opinion and support of a practical keeping of the 7th Day Sabbath. I truly pray you always have that. And while I personally disagree with the sharp dichotomy that the Adventists made between the Asaret Hadberim (Decalogue) and the greater corpus of The Torah, I want you to know that I do agree with the spiritual aspects of Sabbath-keeping that you highlight.


I myself used to do as you do, keeping Sabbath privately in my home with my wife and kids while simultaneously going to a Sunday-keeping assembly. I did that for a number of years before I found that there were other Sabbath-keeping Apostolic Pentecostal groups out there.

And also like you, we used to hold a Friday Night Jamboree over each other's houses for years, even before I officially went Sabbatarian. We'd have all the old timers and the young ones get their guitars and banjos and keyboards and harmonicas . . . and whatever, and we'd all get together on Friday nights and jam together praising The Lord all night long, singing hymns and Gospel songs and old timey folk tunes. We still do similar things like that in out fellowship even to this day.

Also, emphasizing that Sabbath-keeping is a delight rather than a burden. Bravo. Enjoying the Sabbath DOES include reducing a heavy emphasis on the congregational ritualism and the business of a megachurch-type environment, and put the emphasis on devotion, family altar, and wholesome, enjoyable, quality family time. Though I cannot discount that Scripture DOES command "convocation" (i.e. assembly) as part of Sabbath observance as well (Leviticus 23:1-4; Leviticus 19:30; Leviticus 26:2).

Peace

Thank you for your kind words of support.

I look at it like this... Jesus said,

Matthew 18:20
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

As a result, where two or more are gathered in His name, He is present. That is an assembly.

Consider this:

We get the English “synagogue” by transliterating the Greek sunagoge, which means, “a bringing together” (from sunago, to gather together). In its earliest usage, sunagoge did not refer to a building or place of gathering, but rather to the group of people who were gathered together. The Greek word “synagogue” is used more than 200 times in the Septuagint for gatherings of people, but never for a building where people gathered. Later, as the buildings for gathering developed, sunagoge became used of the “gathering place” as well as the people gathered. Thus, the word “synagogue” is similar to the English word “church” in that it can refer to the people who gather together or the place where the people gather together.

Mark 1:21 says Jesus entered “into the synagogue,” using “synagogue” as the place of meeting itself. In contrast, Acts 13:43 is a good example of “synagogue” referring to the people. (NIV: “congregation”). It literally reads, “Now when the synagogue was broken up….” Interestingly, “synagogue” was sometimes used of a gathering of people for evil or hostile intentions. Psalm 21:17 in the Septuagint (which is 22:16 in our English Bibles), uses “synagogue” in that sense, as does Revelation 2:9 and
3:9.

Source: http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/the-synagogue

And so, any place where two or more are "assembled" in Christ's name is an "assembly".

The Spanish text of Matthew 18:20 is interesting, it reads:

Mateo 18:20 Reina-Valera 1960 (RVR1960)
20 Porque donde están dos o tres congregados en mi nombre, allí estoy yo en medio de ellos.

Notice the word for "gathered" is "congregados", from the Latin, "congregati", from which we get our English word, "congregated". Check it out,

Matthaeus 18:20 Biblia Sacra Vulgata (VULGATE)
"Ubi enim sunt duo vel tres congregati in nomine meo, ibi sum in medio eorum."

With this in mind, we can conclude that when two or more are "gathered/congregados/congregati/congregated" together in His name, they are a... congregation, of which He is in the midst.

I like Wesley's Explanatory Notes:

Where two or three are gathered together in my name - That is, to worship me. I am in the midst of them - By my Spirit, to quicken their prayers, guide their counsels, and answer their petitions.

Just sharing a thought. God bless.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

What names? You did not mention the author of the article, in your previous posts, to my knowledge.

Did you read the whole article?

Yes I read it. It was one page with a huge footnote, wasn't it?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Yes I read it. It was one page with a huge footnote, wasn't it?

Uh, no. You must not be registered with JSTOR.