The Sabbath Day, Should You Keep or not Keep?

[Aquila]

Basically, imagine the Sabbath must have been prior to Moses. That's how we keep it.

Many like to point out the 39 Sabbath restrictions in the Law of Moses (the Torah) and argue that we don't keep the Sabbath because we don't honor those restrictions. We don't observe those things, we believe those ordinances were nailed to the cross. That also applies to festivals, new moons, and dietary restrictions. So, while we observe the Sabbath, we don't believe one should be judged regarding all the Sabbath laws, festivals laws, dietary laws, or laws governing new moons, etc.

Colossians 2:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Basically, imagine the Sabbath must have been prior to Moses. That's how we keep it.

Many like to point out the 39 Sabbath restrictions in the Law of Moses (the Torah) and argue that we don't keep the Sabbath because we don't honor those restrictions. We don't observe those things, we believe those ordinances were nailed to the cross. That also applies to festivals, new moons, and dietary restrictions. So, while we observe the Sabbath, we don't believe one should be judged regarding all the Sabbath laws, festivals laws, dietary laws, or laws governing new moons, etc.

Colossians 2:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Could you identify the "39 Sabbath Restrictions from the Law of Moses"?

And who is this "we"? The reason I ask is because most of the Sabbath keepers *I* know don't recognize a dichotomy between "the law of God" and "the law of Moses". Nor do we believe any commandments in the Bible were "nailed to the cross". Rather, we believe the cheirographon (sp?) of our guilt-debt was nailed to the cross.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Could you identify the "39 Sabbath Restrictions from the Law of Moses"?

I tried to find a comprehensive list with explanations for you on line. Here is the list of the 39 main activities that are prohibited on the Shabbat as listed in the Mishna Shabbat 73a and the OT:

1. Zoreah - Sowing (seeding)

2. Choresh - Plowing

3. Kotzair - Reaping (cutting)

4. M'amair - Gathering (bundling sheaves)

5. Dush - Threshing

6. Zoreh - Winnowing

7. Borer - Sorting (selecting, separating)

8. Tochain - Grinding

9. Miraked - Sifting

10. Lush - Kneading

11. Ofeh / (Bishul) - Baking/cooking

12. Gozez - Shearing

13. Melabain - Whitening (bleaching)

14. Menafetz - Disentangling, Combing

15. Tzovayah - Dyeing

16. Toveh - Spinning

17. Maisach - Mounting the warp (stretching threads onto loom)

18. Oseh Beit Batai Neirin - Setting two heddles (preparing to weave)

19. Oraig - Weaving

20. Potzai'ah - Separating (removing) threads (Unweaving)

21. Koshair - Tying a knot

22. Matir - Untying a knot

23. Tofair - Sewing

24. Ko'reah - Tearing (unsewing - ripping)

25. Tzud - Trapping

26. Shochet - Slaughtering (Killing)

27. Mafshit - Skinning

28. M'abaid - Salting/tanning process [1]

29. Mesharteit - Tracing (scratching) lines

30. Memacheik - Smoothing / scraping

31. Mechateich - Cutting (to shape)

32. Kotaiv - Writing two or more letters

33. Mochaik - Erasing two or more letters

34. Boneh - Building

35. Soiser - Demolishing

36. Mechabeh - Extinguishing (putting out a flame)

37. Ma'avir - Kindling (making a fire)

38. Makeh B'Patish - Striking the final blow (Finishing an object)

39. Hotza'ah - Transferring (transporting) from domain to domain (carrying)

The list of Melachot in the Talmud (Tractate Shabbat 7:2) includes salting hides and tanning as separate Melachot. The Talmud (Tractate Shabbat 75b) states that these two are really the same Melacha, and amends the Mishna by inserting tracing lines, as the twenty-ninth Melacha.

These 39 Melachot are divided into six (6) groups:

Group I = Numbers 1-11
Group II = Numbers 12-24
Group III = Numbers 25-31
Group IV = Numbers 32-33
Group V = Numbers 34-35
Group VI = Numbers 36-39

Group I is connected to the field work.
Group II is connected to the making material curtains
Group III is connected to the making of leather curtains
Group IV is connected to the Krushim (beams of the Mishkan)
Group V is connected to the putting the walls of the Mishkan up and down
Group VI is connected to the final touches of the Mishkan

Source:
http://www.torahtots.com/torah/39melachot.htm

And who is this "we"?

Primarily my family at this point. We don't have many "Sabbath observing" (as most might say) people in our current fellowship. Our house church group spent a short time entertaining the notion of Sabbath keeping, but decided to keep Sunday as our day of gathering. Those of us who found benefit in the Sabbath continue to keep it devotionally, and meet with the group on Sunday. It's very informal. It's a devotional practice. It isn't approached as a legalism. I do believe that those who fail to keep it miss out on the blessing it is designed to bring, and perhaps that is a sin of sorts. But I'm not one to condemn people to Hell over the issue or anything. I just encourage embracing the Sabbath as a devotion. I'm fully convinced that if embraced properly, people will find a true blessing in it.

The reason I ask is because most of the Sabbath keepers *I* know don't recognize a dichotomy between "the law of God" and "the law of Moses". Nor do we believe any commandments in the Bible were "nailed to the cross". Rather, we believe the cheirographon (sp?) of our guilt-debt was nailed to the cross.

The only individuals I know who recognize a dichotomy between the Law of God and the Law of Moses are 7th Day Adventists. In most Apostolic circles, Sabbath keepers tend to be Messianic or more Hebrew roots type believers. These individuals don't see a dichotomy. But in truth, this is because they only see the Law of Moses. They fail to understand that if they were to behold the tablets with the 10 Commandments on them, they would not see the entire book of Moses, which is the Torah (the Law of Moses). They only see the Torah and how Moses noted the Laws that were on the tablets in the book of the law.

But, for us, when we look at the Bible we see things that would appear to be contradictory regarding the law unless a distinction was drawn. Here's a short comparison of why we believe in a dichotomy, or distinction, between the Law of God and the Law of Moses:

The Law of Moses was written in a book (scroll)...

2 CHRON. 35:12
And they removed the burnt offerings, that they might give according to the divisions of the families of the people, to offer unto the LORD, as it is written in the book of Moses. And so did they with the oxen.

The Law of God was written by God on stone:

EXO. 31:18
And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

EXO. 32:16
And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables.

The Law of Moses was put in a compartment on the side of the ark:

DEUT. 31:26
Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

The Law of God was placed directly inside the ark:

EXO. 40:20
And he took and put the testimony into the ark, and set the staves on the ark, and put the mercy seat above upon the ark:

The Law of Moses contained ordinances that were ended at the cross:

EPH. 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.

The Law of God is eternal:

MATTHEW 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

The Law of Moses was added because of sin:

GAL. 3:19
Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

The Law of God defines and points out sin:

ROM. 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

ROM. 7:7
What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

The Law of Moses was contrary to us:

COL. 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

The Law of God is not grievous:

1 JOHN 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

The Law of Moses judges no man and contained shadows of things to come:

COL. 2:14-17
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The Law of God judges all men:

JAM. 2:10-12
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

The Law of Moses was carnal:

HEB. 7:16
Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

The Law of God is spiritual:

ROM. 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

The Law of Moses made nothing perfect:

HEB. 7:19
For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

The Law of God is indeed perfect in every way:

PSALMS 19:7
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

Without drawing these distinctions, I'm left asking...

Is the law carnal (Hebrews 7:16) or is the law spiritual (Romans 7:14)?

If we understand a distinction between what is meant by "law" in these passages there are no contradictions. But if we don't we have glaring contradictions. At the end of the day, the primary body of "law" to be concerned with is the 10 Commandments (which are entirely moral in nature), and even these are fulfilled through Christian love (Romans 13:8-10).

At least, that's how I see it.

If you see it differently, I'm not here to condemn or argue. I'm only trying to explain why I see it the way I do. So, if you tell me one is breaking God's law if they murder or commit adultery, I'll vehemently agree. But if you tell me that they are breaking God's law if they eat shrimp and trim the sides of their beard, I'll disagree. Because I believe that those ordinances were nailed to the cross. If you tell me that God intends that man keep the Sabbath, I'll agree. But if you tell me that a man cannot so much as light a fire or extinguish a fire on the Sabbath day, I'll disagree. I believe that those ordinances were nailed to the cross.

I hope this helps explain my understanding.

God bless and keep you and yours.

[Aquila]

Now, don't get me wrong, we can glean many truths from the Law of Moses and the types and shadows it contains. We can also glean deeper insight into God's holiness from the Law of Moses, but we are not bound by it.

For example:

Leviticus 20:13 King James Version (KJV)
13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Now, if I'm bound by this law, I have to put gay people to death. Or at the very least believe that, if at all possible, they should be executed by a duly authorized authority.

But I'm not bound by this law. I understand that in accordance to this ancient ordinance in the Law of Moses those engaging in gay sex were worthy of death. But I do not believe I am to put any gay person to death. Nor do I concur that a duly authorized authority should put them to death.

However, I can glean from this text that such a thing is indeed an abomination in God's eyes. And so, I can know that those who do such things brazenly, without any godly sorrow leading to repentance, will be judged by God for their abominations in the Judgment.

In addition, there is this law (and others like it; Leviticus 20:27, Deuteronomy 13:5):

Exodus 22:18
You shall not suffer a witch to live.

If I'm bound by this law, I'll either desire to kill Wiccans, or desire that someone with properly authorized authority kill Wiccans.

But I'm not bound by this law. I can glean from it that it is indeed an abominable sin in God's sight to practice witchcraft. However, I do not desire to kill witches, or see witches killed. I only desire to see them saved. All the while knowing that those who do not repent from such a sin will indeed be judged for their abominations in the Judgment.

And then this law:

Leviticus 20:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

If I'm bound by this law, I must desire to execute, or support the execution of, adulterers.

But I'm not bound by this law. This law (along with the 7th Commandment) reveals that adultery is a grievous sin. But I am not bound by law to execute (nor do not wish to execute) adulterers. Nor must I even support the execution of adulterers by any duly authorized authority. I wish to see them come to repentance. But, I can know from this law that those who do not repent will be judged for their sin in the Judgment.

In every one of these laws, the law demands that the obedient slay the sinner. But I believe those ordinances were nailed to the cross. I do NOT support the death of sinners. In fact, I could find myself defending their lives should a blood thirsty religious regime like the Taliban rise to power and seek to kill them. Like Christ, I'd have to defend the life of the adulteress from the rabid animals who desire to stone her. In fact, in this fashion, the very law they seek to obey reveals the vile and murderous evil residing in their spirits. For they would use an ancient ordinance as an excuse to kill the wicked... all the while knowing that they are just as wicked. And so, in this sense, the Law of Moses will actually backfire on those who wish to abide by it by revealing them for the bloodthirsty hypocrites, and white washed tombs, that they truly are.

So, please don't think that I believe that the Law of Moses is of no value. We can glean a lot from it. I just don't believe we are bound by it.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I tried to find a comprehensive list with explanations for you on line. Here is the list of the 39 main activities that are prohibited on the Shabbat as listed in the Mishna Shabbat 73a and the OT:

1. Zoreah - Sowing (seeding)

2. Choresh - Plowing

3. Kotzair - Reaping (cutting)

4. M'amair - Gathering (bundling sheaves)

5. Dush - Threshing

6. Zoreh - Winnowing

7. Borer - Sorting (selecting, separating)

8. Tochain - Grinding

9. Miraked - Sifting

10. Lush - Kneading

11. Ofeh / (Bishul) - Baking/cooking

12. Gozez - Shearing

13. Melabain - Whitening (bleaching)

14. Menafetz - Disentangling, Combing

15. Tzovayah - Dyeing

16. Toveh - Spinning

17. Maisach - Mounting the warp (stretching threads onto loom)

18. Oseh Beit Batai Neirin - Setting two heddles (preparing to weave)

19. Oraig - Weaving

20. Potzai'ah - Separating (removing) threads (Unweaving)

21. Koshair - Tying a knot

22. Matir - Untying a knot

23. Tofair - Sewing

24. Ko'reah - Tearing (unsewing - ripping)

25. Tzud - Trapping

26. Shochet - Slaughtering (Killing)

27. Mafshit - Skinning

28. M'abaid - Salting/tanning process [1]

29. Mesharteit - Tracing (scratching) lines

30. Memacheik - Smoothing / scraping

31. Mechateich - Cutting (to shape)

32. Kotaiv - Writing two or more letters

33. Mochaik - Erasing two or more letters

34. Boneh - Building

35. Soiser - Demolishing

36. Mechabeh - Extinguishing (putting out a flame)

37. Ma'avir - Kindling (making a fire)

38. Makeh B'Patish - Striking the final blow (Finishing an object)

39. Hotza'ah - Transferring (transporting) from domain to domain (carrying)

The list of Melachot in the Talmud (Tractate Shabbat 7:2) includes salting hides and tanning as separate Melachot. The Talmud (Tractate Shabbat 75b) states that these two are really the same Melacha, and amends the Mishna by inserting tracing lines, as the twenty-ninth Melacha.

These 39 Melachot are divided into six (6) groups:

Group I = Numbers 1-11
Group II = Numbers 12-24
Group III = Numbers 25-31
Group IV = Numbers 32-33
Group V = Numbers 34-35
Group VI = Numbers 36-39

Group I is connected to the field work.
Group II is connected to the making material curtains
Group III is connected to the making of leather curtains
Group IV is connected to the Krushim (beams of the Mishkan)
Group V is connected to the putting the walls of the Mishkan up and down
Group VI is connected to the final touches of the Mishkan

Source:
http://www.torahtots.com/torah/39melachot.htm

In other words, Talmud? There aren't 39 Sabbath Restrictions in the Word of God. Why do people do this? Why make statements as if those statements were Biblical, then come to find out it's a bunch of Pharisaic silliness?

I just don't get it.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Now, don't get me wrong, we can glean many truths from the Law of Moses and the types and shadows it contains. We can also glean deeper insight into God's holiness from the Law of Moses, but we are not bound by it.

For example:

Leviticus 20:13 King James Version (KJV)
13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Now, if I'm bound by this law, I have to put gay people to death. Or at the very least believe that, if at all possible, they should be executed by a duly authorized authority.

1. The law doesn't authorize YOU to go and kill anyone. The law requires two witnesses under oath in a valid court before a capital punishment can be carried out. And capital punishment is to be carried out by those authorized to do so, not Sammy Citizen.

2. Since you aren't bound by the command, then you believe it wouldn't be sin for you to do what the command forbids. Correct?

3. Did Paul think sodomites deserve capital punishment? See Romans 1 and 2 to check your answer.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

In other words, Talmud? There aren't 39 Sabbath Restrictions in the Word of God. Why do people do this? Why make statements as if those statements were Biblical, then come to find out it's a bunch of Pharisaic silliness?

I just don't get it.

I believe the references from Numbers explains the texts that these prohibitions are drawn from.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

1. The law doesn't authorize YOU to go and kill anyone. The law requires two witnesses under oath in a valid court before a capital punishment can be carried out. And capital punishment is to be carried out by those authorized to do so, not Sammy Citizen.

2. Since you aren't bound by the command, then you believe it wouldn't be sin for you to do what the command forbids. Correct?

3. Did Paul think sodomites deserve capital punishment? See Romans 1 and 2 to check your answer.

Paul speaks of those who are "worthy" of death. You're right. But I don't believe in advocating that a civil government impose such penalties. Those laws belonged to ancient Israel. I believe those ordinances were nailed to the cross. Those who realize how Christ's finished work delivers them through abolishing those penalties are those who truly understand Grace.

I can glean from those laws that such things are sin. But, I can breadthe a sigh of relief, knowing that grace is available for the sinner, and I'm an advocate of that grace with a message of reconciliation. I need not even need to consider such penalties as even a remote option or possibility. They are abolished. Grace, love, forgiveness, is now the higher ethic in play. For the sake of the sinner.

Notice, no penalties of that nature were carved in stone. They were temporary.

[Aquila]

Consider the woman caught in the very act of adultery. When it is emphasized that Christ didn't agree to having the rightful penalty imposed, many point out that although there were witnesses, the guilty man wasn't present, so the law couldn't be rightfully imposed.

What they don't realize is that they are implying that they'd support her being stoned, even perhaps believing that Christ would support her being stoned, if the guilty man was present, to be stoned also.

But Christ didn't point out such a legalistic technicality. He emphasized that everyone present was just as sinful. I believe He'd had done the same, even if all the demands allowing for the stoning of the sinner were present.

In a way, the law reveals a murderous heart in those who would apply it.

[mfblume]

Galatians 3 through 4 explains it all. So simple. ... If people read it without reading into it.