The Sabbath Day, Should You Keep or not Keep?

[mfblume]

In all you stated you never noted how sabbath is a shadow of things to come. Christ. All the fine toothed comb details are all speaking of Christ.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

In all you stated you never noted how sabbath is a shadow of things to come. Christ. All the fine toothed comb details are all speaking of Christ.

I was only addressing the distinction between the Sabbath laws contained in the Law of Moses vs. the Law of God.

Of course, if we get into the Sabbath itself and NT realities, we indeed see that it is a shadow of things that were to come, realities found in Christ Jesus. And for those who believe in an eternity of rest and worship, it still is.

[peter83]

Aquila
mfblume
Esaias

Do you have any idea what the "Law of freedom" means in the epistle of James?
1:25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues [in it], and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this man will be blessed in what he does.
2:12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

I think is the law of the Spirit ...but what do you think is referring?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by peter83

Do you have any idea what the "Law of freedom" means in the epistle of James?
1:25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues [in it], and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this man will be blessed in what he does.
2:12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

I think is the law of the Spirit ...but what do you think is referring?

I believe that it is the, law of Christ (Love):

Matthew 22:36-40
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Romans 13:9-10
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

The Law of Liberty calls us to love God with all our being. And to demonstrate that love, but not through ritual, liturgy, legalisms, or religion. We demonstrate our love for God through our love for our fellow man. And so, when we stand before Him, our every thought, word, deed, and intention will be judged... judged as to if it were of love or if it were of the flesh.

James illustrated that faith without works was dead. But James doesn't describe works of the law in his illustration. Note what works James describes:

James 2:14-20
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Notice, the works that James draws to our attention are clothing the poor and feeding the hungry. These are works of love and compassion, not law.

In my understanding, this is the law of liberty. It offers us liberty in all things, to be guided by the Spirit, and to serve others through love and compassion. This is the "law" that has been placed in our hearts. Love. Divine love. Agape.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by peter83

Do you have any idea what the "Law of freedom" means in the epistle of James?
1:25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues [in it], and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this man will be blessed in what he does.
2:12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

I think is the law of the Spirit ...but what do you think is referring?

Law of Spirit of life in Christ Jesus

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by peter83

Do you have any idea what the "Law of freedom" means in the epistle of James?
1:25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues [in it], and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this man will be blessed in what he does.
2:12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

I think is the law of the Spirit ...but what do you think is referring?

He tells us what it is.

James chapter 1:18-25

18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

The law of liberty is the word of truth which begets us, which is able to save us, which we are to hear and do, and not just hear.

It is the word of God.

John chapter 17:17

Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

First Peter chapter 1:22-25

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Psalm number 19:7-13

7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.

[Raffi]

My friends, I am back from a Sukkot vacation. Much refreshed.

I have read over all that you guys have posted here in my absence. There is not much more that I could add that hasn't been said by someone else. I appreciate that the conversation has continued. But I do not want to just limit myself to this one thread, and I think I am ready to start exploring other threads as well. But I want to say to Aquila that I am most impressed with you regarding this matter. While I do not personally agree that The Law of God is fundamentally different from The Law of Moses as the SDA believes, I want to let you know that regardless of this point, I personally am so happy to see you stand up for the Sabbath Truth. I would almost say it seems you have evolved in this matter. While at the very first it seemed that you had MUCH to say in objection to a literal Sabbath to be kept, now I see from you one of the most impassioned defenders. I am so pleased to read your love for His Sabbath. While I think that arguing that there is a distinction between The Law of God and The Law of Moses is really a theological argument by some to disregard The Fullness of His Law and of OUR responsibility to be obedient in faith to ALL that He has revealed, I think that standing in defense of His Sabbath is a MAJOR breakthrough for ANYONE to make, and you should be encouraged in the Spirit and in love for taking that stand. Perhaps, in time, The Father in Spirit will work even more with you to "evolve" your acceptance of an even larger embrace of His wonderful Law.

While arguing the validity of Torah Law IS indeed at the heart of the Sabbath question, this thread is about the Sabbath in specific, and not actually about The Torah. And so I think there is some room for a Sabbath-keeping argument to be made here that does NOT necessarily depend upon a theology that sees a continued validity of The Torah as a whole. While I DO argue for a continued validity of The Torah as a whole piece, with the Sabbath as but a part of that, thank you for also sharing an alternative view that sees the Sabbath as an important truth in its own right, as an important part of the Apostolic Faith today. Even if some people oppose you against your stand on the Sabbath, I am glad to know that along with Esaias, there are at least three of us here on this forum that believe in His Sabbath and desire, for God's Glory, to continue in it.

I also think that Esaias is on to something when it was mentioned that we perhaps should rightly refer to ourselves as the People of "Holiness", rather than dogmatically calling ourselves "Apostolic" or "Pentecostal". As that the Hebrew word for "holiness" is qadashah, which means "set apart", I would say that is one reason that some Sabbath-keeping Pentecostals refer to ourselves as "Set-Apart Apostolic" Believers.

Any way, just a thought on my part. I love this conversation, and have counted it a privilege that you folks have been letting me participate even though I knew to begin with that the Sabbath-keeping position is not the popular or mainstream practice by a lot of other Apostolic Believers. Honestly, when I first joined and noticed the thread, I was taking a risk because I thought I would find myself thrown off the forum. Instead, I have joyfully participated in an awesome conversation about what is obviously a current topic in the Apostolic Community today. So thank you guys very much.

Peace.

[Raffi]

Esaias, are you familiar with the name of a preacher named C. M. Write? I believe he is referred to as Bishop C. M. Write, with a ministry called Apostolic Iron. Pastors Antioch Apostolic Church.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Raffi

Esaias, are you familiar with the name of a preacher named C. M. Write? I believe he is referred to as Bishop C. M. Write, with a ministry called Apostolic Iron. Pastors Antioch Apostolic Church.

No, the name is not ringing any bells at the moment. Although with a little help from google I might suddenly know something...

Glad you had a good Tabernacles vacation! We did, too.

[mfblume]

Raffi. you never answered me regarding Romans 3's use of UNDER THE LAW which would make your allegation of the term redundant.