Receiving The Holy Spirit & Speaking In Tongues

[SJC]

Originally Posted by CalledOut238

Does condescending comments make you feel superior?



Stop ridiculing Apostolic worship and peddle your false doctrine on a Charismatic website.

[CalledOut238]

Originally Posted by JamesGlen

Called out,
Let brotherly kindness continue.
And let the hateful false doctorine accusations not come from our mouths.
KBTW has great integrity on aff, and you showing up posting hateful phariseutical comments isn't going to change that.

This thread has gone fine with discourse of differing opinions made in acceptable Christian manner, until you showed up posting false doctorine accusations.

Again I ask you to take a few days off to fast and pray about your spirit, then come back to this thread to post in a respectful manner toward other apostolic oneness brethren in Christ. It will still be going then.

KBTW has great integrity on aff

One must "hop around" to try to make the “sound” concept work. "

If brethren think KBTW can mock Apostolic worship then that is sad testimony for AFF.

Our Heavenly Father chose the sign of tongues for the infilling of the Holy Ghost. I am ashamed of brethren who deny their experience for error. It is a shame to make fun of worshipping our Heavenly Father. I do need to pray for Apostolicism. God have mercy on you.

Galatians 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me.

[phareztamar]

Originally Posted by CalledOut238

If brethren think KBTW can mock Apostolic worship then that is sad testimony for AFF.

Our Heavenly Father chose the sign of tongues for the infilling of the Holy Ghost. I am ashamed of brethren who deny their experience for error. It is a shame to make fun of worshipping our Heavenly Father. I do need to pray for Apostolicism. God have mercy on you.

Galatians 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me.

let me first say that I disagree with KTBW on the subject of this thread. But knowing her spirit, I don't find her making fun of anyone. She is a highly respected member of this forum, and it is certainly not in her nature to mock anybody for the way in which they worship God. I extend to her and others the freedom to argue their opinions on the Word of God, and I do so out of a love not my own. So you can be ashamed of me also Mr. Acts 2:38. You think you are a man of much learning? Your righteous indignation is a stench in my nostrils, exceeded only by your total lack of wisdom.

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by phareztamar

let me first say that I disagree with KTBW on the subject of this thread. But knowing her spirit, I don't find her making fun of anyone. She is a highly respected member of this forum, and it is certainly not in her nature to mock anybody for the way in which they worship God. I extend to her and others the freedom to argue their opinions on the Word of God, and I do so out of a love not my own. So you can be ashamed of me also Mr. Acts 2:38. You think you are a man of much learning? Your righteous indignation is a stench in my nostrils, exceeded only by your total lack of wisdom.

I disagree with KBTW, and I have issues with her distortions of what we believe regarding the evidence of tongues, but I would not accuse her of mocking.

[good samaritan]

KBTW:
So from all indications in this chapter, and with the weight of NT scriptures, we are told that the spirit is present upon believing, and once one has believed, and been baptized, the Lord is then able to gift and pour out the full measure of His spirit into that heart, most often noted with the sign of speaking in tongues.

My question:
Have you ever seen someone receive the full measure with any other gift other than tongues and if so what was the sign you have personally witnessed?

KBTW's response:
Yes. They have exhibited the fruit of the spirit mightily in their lives, as well as signs and wonders too. But have never spoken in tongues.

You didn't answer my question. You have already stated that upon repentance and baptism, enough of the Spirit is present to cause a change in a persons life (fruit of the Spirit). You then went on to say that they then can receive the full measure. I understand that you believe tongues is not the absolute evidence.

My question was, what evidence have you personally witnessed other than tongues that the full measure is being poured out? If your answer is fruit of the Spirit, would that not suggest that they received the full measure when they repented and where baptized?

Your statement "as well as signs and wonders too" is what I am getting at. I wanted to know what signs you have personally witnessed other than tongues that the Spirit is being poured out upon someone? Are you now saying that there are no gifts of the Spirit necessary upon the baptism of the Holy Ghost?

[CalledOut238]

Originally Posted by Jito463

I disagree with KBTW, and I have issues with her distortions of what we believe regarding the evidence of tongues, but I would not accuse her of mocking.

One must "hop around" to try to make the “sound” concept work. "

I will be indeed apologize KBTW or anyone else if I have incorrectly misinterpreted their statement. When leading worship I have sang, "hopped around", danced and worshipped the Lord with all my heart. That is why I felt this statement was disparaging to Apostolic worshippers. KBTW, please clarify the context of your statement?

[covey]

Originally Posted by JamesGlen

KBTW, It looks to me like, although I may stand corrected, that your belief is in direct contradiction with Jn 7:39's "Spirit being not yet given", because you say it was given.
And also Heb. 6's foundational doctorine of baptismS, because not only water baptism, but Spirit baptism is a foundational doctrine.

There is a misunderstanding here. I know the Spirit was not given until the day of Pentecost. Therefore, I am not, nor would claim otherwise.

In John 3:8, Jesus says there will be (future event) a sound of the Spirit that we will hear EVERYTIME someone is born of the Spirit. That sound must come from the tongue through speech of the one born of the Spirit. The reason it must be through speech / tongue is the Greek word dictates it so. It cannot mean anything else. Acts 2:38 and elsewhere confirms the sound comes from speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance.

So, the importance of this argument is that Jesus told us exactly what would happen and how we would know when we were born of the Spirit.

This point might have been made by others, but i have never heard it from anyone else. i believe it is an excellent and conclusive argument of speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance happens to all that are born of the Spirit.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Jito463

I disagree with KBTW, and I have issues with her distortions of what we believe regarding the evidence of tongues, but I would not accuse her of mocking.

KBTW and I do not agree on this issue, but I agree with the others on here who are "calling out" CalledOut238 for his disparaging remarks against her.

While KBTW and I don't agree, she has not been disrespectful or mocking of anyone. I respect and value her posts. IMO, you completely misinterpreted what was meant by "hopping around." You took it to be a mockery of worship, and instead of clarifying it, leaped to condemn her for it.

She used the same term with me and I understood what she meant. The term was meant to go from scripture to scripture to scripture to scripture. I didn't agree with it, but it was not meant as mockery.

You're less than 50 posts (at this moment) into your conversation on AFF and most have been spent picking fights and condemning those who may not believe as you. I've had my share of fights with some on here, not fun. I regret it, as you may. And you likely won't last long, should you continue to ........ and condemn people who don't share your beliefs. AFF is a great place to debate (civilly) and share opinions and ideas and beliefs with others -- some of whom may not believe the same as you.

[covey]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Hello Covey, thank you for joining the discussion. I have addressed this "sound" discussion earlier in the thread, but I know it is cumbersome to read through all of it.

Just to clarify and make sure we are both on the same page, you might want to read John 3 again just to refresh your memory. John 3 has the famous verse in it, remember this one?

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Jesus is talking about believing all through this chapter. He that believeth will not be condemned.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Nowhere in John 3 did Jesus mention anything about speaking in tongues. One must "hop around" to try to make the “sound” concept work.

What Jesus did mention, time and time again in this chapter, was believing. And we can find many scriptures to parallel believing with salvation, and being born again. In fact, the Apostle Paul himself was baptized, and born again, saved, without any record of him speaking in tongues.

Now, don't leave here thinking that I don't believe in speaking in tongues, because I do.

The concept I am coming against, is the one of trying to build a case that salvation cannot happen or begin until one speaks in tongues, with nary a scripture to support that. In contrast, many, many scriptures state salvation begins with believing/repentance/baptism.

Here's a few... there's many more...

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

And John here in this scripture also equates believing with the spirit:

John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

So from all indications in this chapter, and with the weight of NT scriptures, we are told that the spirit is present upon believing, and once one has believed, and been baptized, the Lord is then able to gift and pour out the full measure of His spirit into that heart, most often noted with the sign of speaking in tongues.

I'm fairly new to the forum and I just saw your reply. The question you now raise, is what does it mean to believe? The weight of the Scriptures cited does not change what Jesus said, in John 3:8, would happen to those that believe.

The weight of the Scripture argument is valid, but not when something is said as clearly as Jesus said it in John 3:8. To argue to believe in Jesus Christ is to argue to believe and do what He said. Jesus clearly said to Nicodemus that EVERYONE born of the Spirit will hear the sound of the Spirit through speech / tongue. The question is not will we speak in tongues, but do we believe Jesus said we would. John 3:8 says the sound of being born of the Spirit comes by speech / tongues. The book of Acts confirms this is true. This is what we need to believe, if we believe in what Jesus Christ said and did.

To claim one believes Jesus Christ is the son of God, is only true if one believes and does what He says. [Luke 6:46] "Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by CalledOut238

I will be indeed apologize KBTW or anyone else if I have incorrectly misinterpreted their statement. When leading worship I have sang, "hopped around", danced and worshipped the Lord with all my heart. That is why I felt this statement was disparaging to Apostolic worshippers. KBTW, please clarify the context of your statement?

NDavid nailed it above... hopping around was an expression to mean using several different scriptures to make a point. Jumping to conclusions and throwing heavy accusations is not beneficial to a discussion.