The UPC is a dying movement!

[Esaias]

When are folks going to learn that fellowship can only be based on like-mindedness, not organizational structure?

[shazeep]

now you seem to be recognizing the Universal Church.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Esaias

When are folks going to learn that fellowship can only be based on like-mindedness, not organizational structure?

That is why we are in house fellowship. Organizational structure was not part of the early church, and came much later. Most who seek organizational structure, seek to have a ladder to climb. He must increase, I must decrease. Ladder climbing is not for us.

[shazeep]

amen. it is dominance/submission.

[GodIsGreat]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Timetable:
The IMA was formed in the 50's the Latter Rain guys said the UPC days were numbered doubted it would survive 25 years but at the most 50 yrs.
The AMF was formed 1968 Icabob was written on the door well the AMF is on life support gasping for breath.
The Texas Two and company left in the 70's they were going to shake the world the UPC was drying up.
The Libs left in the 90's over the AS the end had come!!! Well......
Both the WPF and the Pontiac crew left I think both thought they would make a major wave just a little splash!!
I am not nor ever have been UPC but some folks are delusional.

Who's the "Pontiac crew"? Just curious.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Barb

Pontiac crew? Please explain...

Group of Libs met in Pontiac around 2000 then left the UPC most fellowship Global.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

In 2008 an invitation only gathering of like-minded and mostly young pastors and ministers and their spouses of the UPC were invited to the UPC church in Auborn Hills, MI (formerly of Pontiac, MI). After the departure of the very conservative elements in 2007 over TV advertising there was some hope that this group (about 60-75 ministers) might be able to have some freedom to convene and discuss off limits topics like traditional Apostolic dress codes and standards. I was invited and attended.

This was new territory for us because a lot of us had lived in fear of the ultra right in the UPC because they often were motivated to try to keep the organization free of anyone who would question the status quo when it came to dress codes and standards of lifestyle. We all knew each other, had often had off the record conversations about our doubts concerning the Biblical basis for many of the traditional standards, but also tried to walk that tightrope of staying in what we had always known, the UPC, and living with a clean conscience. Many of us struggled with the Affirmation Statement. Many of my friends would never sign it with little to no consequence. Others would alter the AS and sign it so as to not sign and be dishonest. Others would sign it and feel conflicted because they knew they could never do what was demanded of the AS.

So we gathered for two days and three nights. We invited Rex Johnson and T F Tenney to talk with us. We advertised it low key, word of mouth, there were no formal invitations mailed out, etc. We wanted a safe place to be honest about how we felt about these issues without being blackballed, black listed, or disciplined for stating our consciences, expressing our doubts, or asking questions. It ended up being three days that were refreshing and encouraging. Everyone there loved the UPC and looked forward to see what we thought was this new day of goodwill and peace to advance the UPC into the 21st century and become relevant to this generation.

It was simply a gathering of like-minded people who wanted to get together, pray, talk, worship, listen, ask questions, and fellowship.

Of course rumors began to circulate that this was a secret gathering to start a new organization. All kinds of wild tales began to spread. We were
preached about for the next year or so at various camp meetings and conferences that year. Reports of the "Pontiac" group being called out by prominent leaders of the UPC from the pulpit were coming back to us by people that were there.

I attended an annual men's conference later that year in my district and pot shots were taken at us from the pulpit. I knew my days in the UPC were numbered. Coupled with a champion of "Apostolic Identity", the man who coined the phrase, working behind the scenes to alienate and isolate me and my church over our lack of standards, I was worn out with it. It was the last UPC event I attended. I and my church remained UPC until 2011 when we formally disaffiliated and I let my license go. In that three year period however, we stopped actively participating in the UPC.

We never tried to form a new organization. We in fact wanted to stay in the UPC. Our hope was that we could "agree to disagree" on the non-essentials but remain united under the One God, Jesus Name message. The UPC after losing the ultra conservatives in 2007 seemed to lurch right trying to prove to its conservative critics that it was going liberal. "Apostolic Identity" became the buzzword and they doubled down on making sure that if you didn't practice, teach, and preach the holiness standards as defined in the UPCI Manual, you should turn in your credentials and leave. So little by little, one by one, we began to leave.

We survived. We found fellowship. Some of us started youth camps and kids camps for our young people. Most of us are doing fine. We got the message and we moved on.

However, I don't believe any of us thought that the UPC would die because we left. I never heard any predictions related to that. I don't think any of us wish the UPC any harm either.

Ok. Do you believe the absolute necessity of obeying Acts 3:28 in order to be saved?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shazeep

now you seem to be recognizing the Universal Church.

lol I recognize it as a catholic invention adapted by protestants to justify their lack of submission to Rome.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Esaias

lol I recognize it as a catholic invention adapted by protestants to justify their lack of submission to Rome.

aren't those both "organizational structure" though?

When are folks going to learn that fellowship can only be based on like-mindedness, not organizational structure?

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Group of Libs met in Pontiac around 2000 then left the UPC most fellowship Global.

Sorry, Elder...I am a member of that church, and can tell you absolutely that this is false information!!!

Nice try though...and btw, it's Auburn Hills...NOT Pontiac...