Why I Am A Futurist

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Not sure totally, but it probably goes along with Jesus saying greater signs than these shall follow them that believe. To let people know of the work that he came to do and for them to take their place in it.

It's plain, I think. John was greatest of all. Since John, those least in the kingdom are greater than him. So how can he be greater than anyone born before him, and be less than the least in the kingdom unless John was not in the kingdom?

John is in the kingdom NOW since his death and atonement redeemed him as well as all of us. But before the cross no one was in the kingdom. You have to be born again to enter the kingdom. And no one was born again before the cross.

[mfblume]

And in regards to knowing prophecy, you can certainly believe and adhere to what you want. But I think it's a traditional error that we cannot perfectly know prophecy. And I do not demand you believe I got revelation from God about it. I really don't care who believes I did. The important thing for me is that I know I did. Each person needs to be fully persuaded for themselves. I don't look at everyone claiming to have a revelation to determine the odds of me actually getting one from God, any more than I look at every religion claiming to be from God in order to determine which one is right. God doesn't want us to be concerned that way. God made this a personal issue. So, I am unable to prove anything to you. He wants it that way because it's called faith.

Some look at all religions and throw their hands up in the air saying there's no hope of finding truth. But such a concept forgets that there is a God who can do with YOU whatever you have faith for Him to do. Who cares about everyone else? When it comes to us and God only we ourselves matter when it comes to knowing for sure what we know.

That's not disparaging reaching to others for their salvation. That's a whole other ball of wax altogether. Unrelated.

So, I don;t mind what you think of my doctrine. I know what I experienced. And let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

I don't even care what doctrine you believe. Matters nothing to me. But for those who ask what I believe, I will tell them quite passionately. But in no way is that demanding anyone to agree with me.

[good samaritan]

Where were all the OT saints while awaiting Jesus death, burial, and resurrection? Some teach they went to hell where Jesus went and got them, but I feel like that is one's definition of hell. If hell is death and the grave yes, but I don't believe that Abraham was ever in fiery pit of torment. If not hell then would you say the kingdom of heaven?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Where were all the OT saints while awaiting Jesus death, burial, and resurrection? Some teach they went to hell where Jesus went and got them, but I feel like that is one's definition of hell. If hell is death and the grave yes, but I don't believe that Abraham was ever in fiery pit of torment. If not hell then would you say the kingdom of heaven?

They were in what Christ called Abraham's bosom. Not in heaven but in the place of non-torment where the obedient dead went.

Sheol in before the cross had, as it were, two compartments. One of fiery torment, called Gehenna, and the other of peaceful waiting called Abraham's bosom. Since the cross the abode of the righteous dead was removed and sheol now holds only gehenna.

That's why Christ's resurrection saw many of the saints walking the city. He removed them from there and took them on up into glory for the first time.

My belief, anyway.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by mfblume

And in regards to knowing prophecy, you can certainly believe and adhere to what you want. But I think it's a traditional error that we cannot perfectly know prophecy. And I do not demand you believe I got revelation from God about it. I really don't care who believes I did. The important thing for me is that I know I did. Each person needs to be fully persuaded for themselves. I don't look at everyone claiming to have a revelation to determine the odds of me actually getting one from God, any more than I look at every religion claiming to be from God in order to determine which one is right. God doesn't want us to be concerned that way. God made this a personal issue. So, I am unable to prove anything to you. He wants it that way because it's called faith.

Some look at all religions and throw their hands up in the air saying there's no hope of finding truth. But such a concept forgets that there is a God who can do with YOU whatever you have faith for Him to do. Who cares about everyone else? When it comes to us and God only we ourselves matter when it comes to knowing for sure what we know.

That's not disparaging reaching to others for their salvation. That's a whole other ball of wax altogether. Unrelated.

So, I don;t mind what you think of my doctrine. I know what I experienced. And let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

I don't even care what doctrine you believe. Matters nothing to me. But for those who ask what I believe, I will tell them quite passionately. But in no way is that demanding anyone to agree with me.

I hope I am not being offensive because it is not my intention. I enjoy hearing people's thoughts and enjoyed the teaching you posted and probably will watch more. I am a young 33 yr. old pastor who I am still developing in some of my doctrinal stances. The new birth is something I firmly stand on and the black and white issue in the word of God but I am still developing in other areas and like to hear what people say from every side of the spectrum.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by mfblume

They were in what Christ called Abraham's bosom. Not in heaven but in the place of non-torment where the obedient dead went.

Sheol in before the cross had, as it were, two compartments. One of fiery torment, called Gehenna, and the other of peaceful waiting called Abraham's bosom. Since the cross the abode of the righteous dead was removed and sheol now holds only gehenna.

That's why Christ's resurrection saw many of the saints walking the city. He removed them from there and took them on up into glory for the first time.

My belief, anyway.

With that in mind. Scriptures teach that the dead in Christ shall rise first. So would you say that when we die we go straight to heaven? On judgement day when we the Lord returns He will come with all the saints that have gone on before and receive all those that are alive and remain and at that time also judge the devil, his angels and the lost of this world?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I hope I am not being offensive because it is not my intention. I enjoy hearing people's thoughts and enjoyed the teaching you posted and probably will watch more. I am a young 33 yr. old pastor who I am still developing in some of my doctrinal stances. The new birth is something I firmly stand on and the black and white issue in the word of God but I am still developing in other areas and like to hear what people say from every side of the spectrum.

You are not offensive in any sense of the term. I enjoy sharing and discussing like this. And I appreciate your willingness to discuss. You can take whatever you want from my beliefs and do with them as you wish. I'm just answering to the best of my sincerest abilities.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

With that in mind. Scriptures teach that the dead in Christ shall rise first. So would you say that when we die we go straight to heaven?

Yes.

Our souls and spirits leave our bodies.

That's why Paul made this statement.

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

And when the resurrection takes place, our bodies are once again provided for us and are then made immortal and incorruptible, though.

On judgement day when we the Lord returns He will come with all the saints that have gone on before and receive all those that are alive and remain and at that time also judge the devil, his angels and the lost of this world?

Yes! No millennium after and no time on earth for sinners in any way, either. We go straight to the white throne judgment. Everyone. Satan and demons and sinners alike.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Yes.

Our souls and spirits leave our bodies.

That's why Paul made this statement.

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

And when the resurrection takes place, our bodies are once again provided for us and are then made immortal and incorruptible, though.


Yes! No millennium after and no time on earth for sinners in any way, either. We go straight to the white throne judgment. Everyone. Satan and demons and sinners alike.

To me this is very plausible. It makes sense and shouldn't be offensive
to anyone's rapture point of view. Many people's pre-trib view makes it sound like Jesus makes two trips once for the rapture and then another for the battle of Armageddon and the judgement. That never fit well with me, but really the only thing I am sure of is the resurrection to eternal life or death.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

To me this is very plausible. It makes sense and shouldn't be offensive
to anyone's rapture point of view. Many people's pre-trib view makes it sound like Jesus makes two trips once for the rapture and then another for the battle of Armageddon and the judgement. That never fit well with me, but really the only thing I am sure of is the resurrection to eternal life or death.

And that's the main thing, anyway.

This has been a great chat. Chats become tainted and ruined when someone comes along and mocks the other's beliefs as nonsense and so on. Glad to see this doesn't have to occur with you.