Saddened by NY Grand Jury Decision To NOT Indict

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by StillStanding

If the LEO had put a choke hold on the victim, he would not have been able to breath OR TALK at all. I do agree that the headlock should have been loosened when the guy complained that he couldn't breath. We obviously don't know the info the was given to the grand jury. I have heard that the officer in charge in this situation was black.

Looking at the video itself, I can see where disciplinary actions should be taken against the officers involved. What we are not hearing is all the facts that led up to 10 officers needing to take this man down. Yes, the police tactics used were instrumental in the man's death. But, some responsibility must lie on the victim himself for resisting arrest. We can all agree that had he complied with police requests, he would be alive today! It's a tragedy of errors.

I don't believe it was a tragedy of errors at all. The police were called, by shop owners, because Garner was disrupting the area and preventing people from entering the stores.

He had a record showing he has no regard concerning the law. The police were involved in a "take down" with Garner. He was resisting arrest. They have to then subdue the suspect on the ground.

In this case, as in so many others who are resisting arrest, they cry wolf - "My neck hurts, my back hurts, my head hurts, I can't breathe, etc., etc."

If the police release tension, they lose ground and have to start all over again. They had no way of knowing he was crying wolf. And as the police officer was NOT, as medical records show, trying to actually choke the guy, he had no reason to believe the guy and was not going to let up on the tension.

So, the fault lies with Garner resisting arrest. The police were doing their job. It's too bad the criminal had health issues, but there it is. His demise lays at his own feet.

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by n david

Whatever you want to call it, the cop put his arm around the man's neck, causing him to be unable to breathe. That resulted in stress being placed on the heart which caused the cardiac arrest.

One led to another.... and it all directly resulted from a thug in uniform.

Call it a choke hold, call it a headlock, call it a hug if you want. I'll call it negligent homicide. He should have known what his actions could lead to. I'll bet it wasn't his first use of excessive force, and it likely won't be the last.

And NONE of this would have happened if the perp had simply put his hands behind his back when told he was under arrest. Let's place the blame where it belongs. It's not the officers fault he was resisting. And this wasn't the perps first rodeo either. He knew what he was doing and what the result was going to be.

[n david]

Yes, blame the dead guy. I mean, he was black and a big man, so it must have been his fault.

It couldn't be that this is a bad cop, right? Forget about the previous complaints for excessive force and the two lawsuits against him for unlawful arrests.

It's the dead black guy's fault.

Forget that contrary to what PO claims, the cops were NOT called on Eric Garner. The fact was he was there when a fight broke out nearby, and he broke it up. When these thugs in blue showed up, they recognized him and began harassing him. Why? Because they knew he had a rap sheet selling black market cigarettes.

Garner was minding his own business. Look at the video, he doesn't have anything. What, is he selling cigarettes individually?

ForumRunner_20141206_105252.jpg

Look at the pic and be honest. That is a choke hold. The cop's arm is around and under his chin and against his throat. After doing that, the cop then stands up and is shoving Garner's head and neck down against the pavement.

Look at the official autopsy and tell me what it says. I already know, but you people humor me.

It doesn't say he died resisting arrest. Doesn't say he died from being obese. Doesn't say he died from anything HE caused.

On Aug. 1, a New York City medical examiner determined that the cause of death in the Garner case was "homicide," specifically the neck compressions from the Pantaleo's chokehold and "the compression of [Garner's] chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police"

Judge Napolitano gets it. His words, "I think it is clearly a case for [b]criminally negligent homicide."

I'm with the Judge on this one. Stop blaming the victim, his weight and prior rap sheet and put the blame where it belongs - on a bad cop who has a sheet of his own and lawsuits filed against him.

Eric Garner was NOT Michael Brown. And Pantaleo is NOT Officer Wilson.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by n david

Yes, blame the dead guy. I mean, he was black and a big man, so it must have been his fault.

It couldn't be that this is a bad cop, right? Forget about the previous complaints for excessive force and the two lawsuits against him for unlawful arrests.

It's the dead black guy's fault.

Forget that contrary to what PO claims, the cops were NOT called on Eric Garner. The fact was he was there when a fight broke out nearby, and he broke it up. When these thugs in blue showed up, they recognized him and began harassing him. Why? Because they knew he had a rap sheet selling black market cigarettes.

Garner was minding his own business. Look at the video, he doesn't have anything. What, is he selling cigarettes individually?

Attachment 4609

Look at the pic and be honest. That is a choke hold. The cop's arm is around and under his chin and against his throat. After doing that, the cop then stands up and is shoving Garner's head and neck down against the pavement.

Look at the official autopsy and tell me what it says. I already know, but you people humor me.

It doesn't say he died resisting arrest. Doesn't say he died from being obese. Doesn't say he died from anything HE caused.



Judge Napolitano gets it. His words, "I think it is clearly a case for [b]criminally negligent homicide."

I'm with the Judge on this one. Stop blaming the victim, his weight and prior rap sheet and put the blame where it belongs - on a bad cop who has a sheet of his own and lawsuits filed against him.

Eric Garner was NOT Michael Brown. And Pantaleo is NOT Officer Wilson.

They think all cops are nice. Some of them are but from what I've seen many are not.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by StillStanding

If the LEO had put a choke hold on the victim, he would not have been able to breath OR TALK at all. I do agree that the headlock should have been loosened when the guy complained that he couldn't breath. We obviously don't know the info the was given to the grand jury. I have heard that the officer in charge in this situation was black.

Looking at the video itself, I can see where disciplinary actions should be taken against the officers involved. What we are not hearing is all the facts that led up to 10 officers needing to take this man down. Yes, the police tactics used were instrumental in the man's death. But, some responsibility must lie on the victim himself for resisting arrest. We can all agree that had he complied with police requests, he would be alive today! It's a tragedy of errors.

Like I was saying, there was a Supervisor on scene. She was also a black person and she could have said STOP...He can't breath

I don't think police are told or trained to stop, partly because a suspect may just say anything to make them stop.

It's sad but things are not always what they appear

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by n david

Yes, blame the dead guy. I mean, he was black and a big man, so it must have been his fault.

Im really surprised and disappointment. Of all the people on this forum to ignore facts and make emotional responses, I never expected you to be one of them.

You sound like Aquila and JD now. You have the same mentality of everyone that responded to the Travon Martin and Michael Brown incident despite you having saw the evidence and checked your emotions to think rationally on THOSE issues

Why did you suddenly change to the subjective emotional position now?

His race is irrelevant. Or it SHOULD be.

However as far as fault goes. It's not his skin color or size...it's that he was breaking the law AND resisting arrest. He was combative from the beginning. That is his fault for the take down. That is what police do. They confront people who break the law and when they don't comply with requests, they take you down to subdue you. Ive seen it done to whites, Hispanics and blacks. Ive seen it down with skinny, fat and medium sized people

It's just a fact and you know that.

[Praxeas]

The autopsy report says there was no damage to his esophagus
http://nypost.com/2014/07/19/man-in-...amage-autopsy/

Also watch this video. An expert confirms my point. It was not a choke hold that you are thinking of blocking his windpipe. He also points out that it was the others that should have been looked at that were on his back

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vi...ehold.cnn.html

[Praxeas]

"That does not appear to have been the case. Garner did not die of asphyxiation, as the head of the Patrolmen’s Benevolent Association noted at the time. The preliminary autopsy showed no damage to Garner’s windpipe or neck bones.

So what was Pantaleo doing? He was applying a submission hold, which is not barred by the NYPD, and is designed to deprive the brain of oxygen by stopping blood flow through the arteries. So say the experts on submission holds.

It appears that the so-called chokehold was instrumental in triggering Garner’s pre-existing health problems and causing his death, but Garner was not choked to death, as the media seems to maintain. According to Garner’s friends, he “had several health issues: diabetes, sleep apnea, and asthma so severe that he had to quit his job as a horticulturist for the city’s parks department. He wheezed when he talked and could not walk a block without resting, they said.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...ts-Eric-Garner

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

They think all cops are nice. Some of them are but from what I've seen many are not.

that's idiotic and another emotional response. Nobody believes all cops are nice.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by n david

It doesn't say he died resisting arrest. Doesn't say he died from being obese. Doesn't say he died from anything HE caused.

No it says He died from several contributing factor not all of which were the actions of one police officer

also it was not a chokehold. Chokehold don't go under the arm and around the neck. That is a submission move not a "cut off the windpipe" move