The Seven Spirits of God

Jose Santos · #1 08-11-2014, 12:43 AM

I got a good question on another forum that challenged by theological training and wanted to post it here and see what everybody thinks. Here is how the conversation went:

"Original Question: Two quick questions for anyone willing to answer: 1. Are "the spirit of Christ" (Romans 8:9) and the Holy Spirit one and the same spirit? 2.How many spirits does God have?

ME: There is one Spirit (Eph 4:4) and the Lord is that Spirit (2 Cor. 3:17).

Him: Revelation 3:1
And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
Revelation 4:5
And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
Revelation 5:6
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

ME: the book of revelation is using the word Spirit to denote messengers or angels.

HIM: how do you know that?

ME: That is what is commonly believed by theologians. Because the Bible cannot contradict itself, God cannot simultaneously be on and be seven. It is also commonly believed that because the word angel was used to denote pastors or leaders of each church that the word Spirit was used to denote angels. It is interesting that the Greek word is pneuma, which if the same word used for the holy ghost.. Some of course teach that this is just John's vision and so not a real depiction of heaven but more of an allegory. Whatever we believe it would still be impossible for God to be one and be seven at the same time.

HIM: Why can't God be whatever He wants? He is infinite and omnipresent. I'm not sure there would be a contradiction anyway, the passage that speaks of one spirit could be referring to one spirit in charge of the church and salvation of man, or it could be that God's spirit is somehow divided into seven persons, or personages. The underlying point I am trying to make is that God is not simply quantified or bound by our finite ability to understand Him, so the whole Trinity oneness debate would seem to be a bit of a waste of time."

So, in my theological training I went back to the old standard, God's word cannot contradict itself. I am searching the scripture and I cannot for the life of me find a scripture that says God's Word cannot contradict itself. I know I have always been taught this, and just accepted in on face value because it seems to be a no brainer!

But is there a scripture or group of scriptures that would solidify this concept?

Thanks,
Jose

Praxeas · #2 08-11-2014, 12:59 AM

It does not say God IS 7 Spirits. It says the 7 spirits of God. There were 7 churches and 7 angels

Angels are spirits

Jesus said God is spirit, not spirits

It also says 7 stars. So is God now 7 stars?
Yeah I don't agree with that guy

Jose Santos · #3 08-11-2014, 02:02 AM

Right Praxeus, I don't believe him either, but can I prove it with scripture? And if the 7 spirits of God are angels, why did John use the Word pneuma (not used in the Bible anywhere else for angel, just for the Spirit of God)? How do we explain the multiplicity of "Spirits" that is spoken of?

And to my original question, where does the Bible say it cannot contradict itself?

Jose

MawMaw · #4 08-11-2014, 07:11 AM

Just opened up this thread on my computer and at same time
was looking at my twitter account on my phone.
First posts I saw was talking about the same thing.
The twitter post stated....

Quote:

7 Spirits of God before Throne. Spirit of the Lord,
fear of the Lord, wisdom, counsel, knowledge, might,
understanding. Isa. 11:2 Rev. 1:4

Aquila · #5 08-11-2014, 07:11 AM

Might God have more than three modes of existence?

Sean · #6 08-11-2014, 08:58 AM

"Original Question: Two quick questions for anyone willing to answer: 1. Are "the spirit of Christ" (Romans 8:9) and the Holy Spirit one and the same spirit? 2.How many spirits does God have? Quote JOSESANTOS

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Brother, its quite simple, Our Lord Jesus had the Holy Ghost(Luke 4:1). That Spirit that dwelt in him also dwells in us today. It is the exact same Spirit.

FlamingZword · #7 08-11-2014, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Might God have more than three modes of existence?

I am beginning to understand that God is beyond comprehension by humans.

God is indeed one and indivisible, but I am begging to think that he is multidimensional. Not that he is three different persons, for he is one person, but with no limitations as to his nature.

Perhaps we have limited God because we humans are limited, so we tend to think of him within our own limitations.

so to my new realization God is not a trinity, but a numberless multiplicity of selfs. Thousands of us claim to receive God in our spirit, the scriptures say that God dwells in his people.

we receive the spirit of Christ in us, so how could Christ reside in millions of Christians around the world, unless he had an infinite supply of selves.

We Christians receive God in us and he dwells in us, yet no one would claim that he has the whole of God within himself, yet at the same time we do have the whole that God is within ourselves.

So in conclusion, I would say that God indeed has more than three modes of existence, he has an unlimited (beyond numbers) modes of existence.

KeptByTheWord · #8 08-11-2014, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

I am beginning to understand that God is beyond comprehension by humans.

God is indeed one and indivisible, but I am begging to think that he is multidimensional. Not that he is three different persons, for he is one person, but with no limitations as to his nature.

Perhaps we have limited God because we humans are limited, so we tend to think of him within our own limitations.

so to my new realization God is not a trinity, but a numberless multiplicity of selfs. Thousands of us claim to receive God in our spirit, the scriptures say that God dwells in his people.

we receive the spirit of Christ in us, so how could Christ reside in millions of Christians around the world, unless he had an infinite supply of selves.

We Christians receive God in us and he dwells in us, yet no one would claim that he has the whole of God within himself, yet at the same time we do have the whole that God is within ourselves.

So in conclusion, I would say that God indeed has more than three modes of existence, he has an unlimited (beyond numbers) modes of existence.

Yes Bro. Flaming, I believe that we are trying to understand God with our human understanding, which is nigh to impossible. When Paul went up into the third heaven, he received and saw things which he was not even able to begin to explain to others. What did he see?

I don't want to limit God with my human understanding. One thing for certain, Jesus is an extension of God himself in this world... and however it all came to be, I think humans will forever limit themselves in believing they have all the answers. We still don't know everything on what we can see around us... one scientist offers one explanation for a series of events, while another offers his. Who is right? How do we know who to believe? Only God himself has the answers as the Creator... and the rest of us are just bumbling along thinking we "know it all", while we perhaps have just grasped a piece of the puzzle, and have no clue about the rest of the puzzle at all.

I have come to the understanding, that the Creator of this universe we live in is so much bigger than all of His creation combined... and we will never fully and completely be able to understand the intricate workings of God and Christ until perhaps the day when we lose our mortality, and are changed into immortality, and perhaps then we may be able to see and know HIM as He is.

Praxeas · #9 08-11-2014, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose Santos

Right Praxeus, I don't believe him either, but can I prove it with scripture? And if the 7 spirits of God are angels, why did John use the Word pneuma (not used in the Bible anywhere else for angel, just for the Spirit of God)? How do we explain the multiplicity of "Spirits" that is spoken of?

And to my original question, where does the Bible say it cannot contradict itself?

Jose

Angels ARE called spirits.

Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels has he ever said, "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet"?
Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent out to serve those who will inherit salvation?

1Ki 22:19 Micaiah said, "That being the case, hear the word of the Lord. I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, with all the heavenly assembly standing on his right and on his left.
1Ki 22:20 The Lord said, 'Who will deceive Ahab, so he will attack Ramoth Gilead and die there?' One said this and another that.
1Ki 22:21 Then a spirit stepped forward and stood before the Lord. He said, 'I will deceive him.' The Lord asked him, 'How?'
1Ki 22:22 He replied, 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets.' The Lord said, 'Deceive and overpower him. Go out and do as you have proposed.'

Praxeas · #10 08-11-2014, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose Santos

Right Praxeus, I don't believe him either, but can I prove it with scripture? And if the 7 spirits of God are angels, why did John use the Word pneuma (not used in the Bible anywhere else for angel, just for the Spirit of God)? How do we explain the multiplicity of "Spirits" that is spoken of?

And to my original question, where does the Bible say it cannot contradict itself?

Jose

That was the question? Well I don't know offhand but if two things contradict each other, then one of them is true and the other is false or both are false, but both can't be true