Tithing…Is it a command?

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by anon5

You lost me on this. I'm not sure what you mean. If you mean like oily preachers conning old ladies out of their life savings, then that doesn't constitute paying tithes. God described paying tithes as paying ten percent of your increase. He put ten percent for a reason. It's doable for everyone. No one gets sent to the poorhouse because of the low percentage, and it's fair.
If you question whether or not some preacher should get it fine. Give ten percentbto your local dog pound if you wish. The financial blessings from doing that will STILL come.

Tithing provides no financial blessing.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by anon5

Back on topic: The bottom line with me and tithing is even if the preacher preached against it and ordered me not to do it I still would tithe. I don't know the true motivations of most preachers on the subject, but I do know that ANYONE who tithes on a regular basis and has experienced the bizarre effects of it, are completely sold in the subject and don't see it as extortion at all.
Extortion hurts people and ultimately leaves them with less, not more. Regardless of the preachers motivations, the tither is still left with more.
When it comes to the preacher in question, the best way to find out WHY he wants you to tithe is to find out whether or not HE tithes. That little tidbit of info will tell alot.

Actually, since I quit 20 years ago, my income shortly became better(doubled)

I have watched countless friends and family suffer great financial and physical loss that tithed. Losing their homes, careers and health with no relief. They, as I did years ago, tried to claim Mal.3:8 and get God to bless them, It didnt work.

If the Lord somehow can be persuaded to "honor" Malachi 3, then He is officially acknowledging the Law is still applicable to believers today.(Malachi 3 is the Law, according to Heb, 7:5)

[anon5]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Tithing provides no financial blessing.

All I know is it works for me. Without fail.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by anon5

All I know is it works for me. Without fail.

If you would believe just as strongly in free will giving then it would work just as well for you.

Sometimes I think god rewards faith even when the faith is misplaced...

[OneAccord]

I don't see the giving of tithes as a command as such, but as a fair and equitable privilege for all believers to support the work of their local churches. Everyone gives 10%- everyone, in essence, gives the same amount. 10% of $10 is $1. 10% of $100 is $10.

In Matthew 23:23, Jesus endorsed the giving of tithes by saying this: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. The Pharisees had changed the "giving of tithes" to the "paying of tithes". There is a difference. They had made it an obligation, commandment, and had taken it to extremes. Jesus didn't condemn the giving of tithes, and said "these ought ye to have done", but chastised them for failing to observe the real purpose of the law, which was judgment, mercy and faith. Its like the rigid law of washing hands. The Pharisees were very rigid, if not ritualistic, in the practice, but failed to understand its importance.

Our "paying tithes" attitude is what gives us a problem. "Why do I have to pay 10%?" We don't have to. But we can GIVE 10% with a cheerful attitude because we believe in what our church is doing.

2Co 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. The NIV says it this way: Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

The "giving of tithes" is a matter of the heart. Its an attitude. Its our attitude to willingly and generously support God's work that God blesses.

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

I don't see the giving of tithes as a command as such, but as a fair and equitable privilege for all believers to support the work of their local churches. Everyone gives 10%- everyone, in essence, gives the same amount. 10% of $10 is $1. 10% of $100 is $10.

In Matthew 23:23, Jesus endorsed the giving of tithes by saying this: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. The Pharisees had changed the "giving of tithes" to the "paying of tithes". There is a difference. They had made it an obligation, commandment, and had taken it to extremes. Jesus didn't condemn the giving of tithes, and said "these ought ye to have done", but chastised them for failing to observe the real purpose of the law, which was judgment, mercy and faith. Its like the rigid law of washing hands. The Pharisees were very rigid, if not ritualistic, in the practice, but failed to understand its importance.

Our "paying tithes" attitude is what gives us a problem. "Why do I have to pay 10%?" We don't have to. But we can GIVE 10% with a cheerful attitude because we believe in what our church is doing.

2Co 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. The NIV says it this way: Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

The "giving of tithes" is a matter of the heart. Its an attitude. Its our attitude to willingly and generously support God's work that God blesses.

Have you "rightly divided the word of truth" about this matter? I think not!

When Jesus spoke the words recorded in Matthew 23:23 its important we note that, at that time, the dictates of the Law were still effective, therefore tithing was required.

I think we need to carefully consider what the underlying reason was for the tithe while the Law was in effect, namely for these purposes:

To provide the means of livelihood for the Levites (the priesthood) who were not given land in Israel whereby they would be able to provide the needs of their families, and

to lend assistance to the poor, widowed, orphans, as well as any stranger in the land who might need such help, and

to be used during festivals.

This tithe was NEVER financial, rather it consisted of a prescribed portion of the fruits of the land, as well of their herds.

With the sacrificial death of Christ Jesus, the requirements of the Law were fulfilled. This effectively ended the requirement for tithing. But wait, that's not all to be said about the matter....

With the institutuon of the New Covenant, and the cancellation of the Levitical priesthood, God instituted a new "priesthood" when He laid the foundation of His church on that first Feast of Pentecost which followed the Lord's ascension to His throne in the heavens ... a royal priesthood which would consist of every member of His church. The need to provide for the livelihood of this "new" priesthood" now became the responsibility of everyone. Surely we don't tithe to one another as priests!

Yes, we should "give" and do so generously as we purpose in our heart. And we should do so for the same reason ancient Israel were commanded: to help the poor, the widowed, orphans, and strangers in our midst .... but NOT to support a professional ministry or to maintain majestic cathedrals, which is precisely what we are told we must do today! This is just plain wrong, and any number of arguments in its support, calling it "in support of God's work" is equally wrong!

I give, and many times far above 10%. That's not boasting, its just what I desirte to do, for I am persuaded that it is better to give than to receive. But do I give of my finances to support whiat I believe to be an illegitimate professional ministry or to provide funds to maintain a majestic building wherein I might assembly with fellow saints in worship to God? Absolutely not!

I can worship God with others in my own house, or theirs, and at no cost to any caring to join with me. Was this not the way it was with the saints of the 1st Century? Why should we not emulate their ways? I think to do so would be more pleasing to God, and probably would produce a greater harvest of souls than what we are presently experiencing.

If any are able to provide me with indisputable Scriptural evidence which proves that this way of "tithing" is amiss, I will consider prayerfully and be open to changing my mind, otherwise I shall stand firm in my beliefs.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

I don't see the giving of tithes as a command as such, but as a fair and equitable privilege for all believers to support the work of their local churches. Everyone gives 10%- everyone, in essence, gives the same amount. 10% of $10 is $1. 10% of $100 is $10.

In Matthew 23:23, Jesus endorsed the giving of tithes by saying this: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. The Pharisees had changed the "giving of tithes" to the "paying of tithes". There is a difference. They had made it an obligation, commandment, and had taken it to extremes. Jesus didn't condemn the giving of tithes, and said "these ought ye to have done", but chastised them for failing to observe the real purpose of the law, which was judgment, mercy and faith. Its like the rigid law of washing hands. The Pharisees were very rigid, if not ritualistic, in the practice, but failed to understand its importance.

Our "paying tithes" attitude is what gives us a problem. "Why do I have to pay 10%?" We don't have to. But we can GIVE 10% with a cheerful attitude because we believe in what our church is doing.

2Co 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. The NIV says it this way: Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

The "giving of tithes" is a matter of the heart. Its an attitude. Its our attitude to willingly and generously support God's work that God blesses.

Jesus was talking to PHARISEES, that were STILL under the law of Moses(chewing them out). You can only apply this to you if YOU are a Pharisee, and under the Law....ARE YOU?

[anon5]

Originally Posted by Sean

Jesus was talking to PHARISEES, that were STILL under the law of Moses(chewing them out). You can only apply this to you if YOU are a Pharisee, and under the Law....ARE YOU?

Jesus chewed out the Pharisees not because they followed the law, but because they were so incredibly mean and nasty to their fellow man. They had no heart whatsoever, and didn't even show any happiness with the man who was healed on the sabbath.

I'd be willing to bet money that Jesus followed the law of Moses. He kept his beard untrimmed, he NEVER ate pork or unclean things, and he went to the temple on the sabbath, just to name a few. When his disciples were hungry, he showed compassion and allowed them to eat the wheat from the fields.

When there's a need, as a Christian, you simply MUST make certain adjustments. I for example believe quite strongly that I should go into church every Sunday, and partake of the Sacrament. I believe that it's not right to go shopping or to restaurants where my presence would require others to work on Sunday to provide me with a service. I can't help it that others don't care, or believe this, I can only live life and the gospel the way I feel convicted to live. And some things I do may seem to contradict others, but it's only because I'm not aware of it, or can't really think of ways around it, but I do my best. I believe this is one of the steps in keeping or renewing the covenants I made to God. However, if something or some type of emergency came up to where my help was needed, I would leave the church pews to offer any kind of help or aid I could. Like helping to dig people from debris of a tornado. Yes, I could probably take a break and go to church on sunday, but meanwhile those people/kids are STILL stuck wherever.

That's just an analogy, it didn't actually happen to me, but do you understand what I'm saying?

Do you know what God wants from us? He wants us to love him, and keep his commandments. If we love him, we love others, and one of the commandments is to love others, so we can't get past the loving others. Yet he STILL wants us to do our best, which means keeping the other commandments. He commands us to accept and apply the atonment of the blood of Jesus to our lives. He commands us to obey the other commandments to the very best of our abilities. By keeping the commandments, we've accepted and acknowledged his lordship over our lives, and we've in essence committed ourselves to him.


I said it before when I first logged on this site. We are here to learn. To grow and to learn, and to become just a little bit better then we were yesterday, and to become better tommorrow then we are today. Eventually, we will become perfect like God, and will return to him. He wants us to return to him. ".... Be ye perfect, as my father in heaven is perfect."

[anon5]

Originally Posted by Sean

Jesus was talking to PHARISEES, that were STILL under the law of Moses(chewing them out). You can only apply this to you if YOU are a Pharisee, and under the Law....ARE YOU?

Also, what wasn't included in that post your responded to was Jesus telling them that they should have done the former and not neglected the latter. In other words, they were totally right in tithing down to the herbs, but messed up when it came to the sufferings and needs of their fellow human beings.

Jesus TOTALLY endorsed tithing. 100% Yet he stayed poor and got crucified. Therefore tithing must be bad?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by anon5

Jesus chewed out the Pharisees not because they followed the law, but because they were so incredibly mean and nasty to their fellow man. They had no heart whatsoever, and didn't even show any happiness with the man who was healed on the sabbath.

I'd be willing to bet money that Jesus followed the law of Moses. He kept his beard untrimmed, he NEVER ate pork or unclean things, and he went to the temple on the sabbath, just to name a few. When his disciples were hungry, he showed compassion and allowed them to eat the wheat from the fields.

When there's a need, as a Christian, you simply MUST make certain adjustments. I for example believe quite strongly that I should go into church every Sunday, and partake of the Sacrament. I believe that it's not right to go shopping or to restaurants where my presence would require others to work on Sunday to provide me with a service. I can't help it that others don't care, or believe this, I can only live life and the gospel the way I feel convicted to live. And some things I do may seem to contradict others, but it's only because I'm not aware of it, or can't really think of ways around it, but I do my best. I believe this is one of the steps in keeping or renewing the covenants I made to God. However, if something or some type of emergency came up to where my help was needed, I would leave the church pews to offer any kind of help or aid I could. Like helping to dig people from debris of a tornado. Yes, I could probably take a break and go to church on sunday, but meanwhile those people/kids are STILL stuck wherever.

That's just an analogy, it didn't actually happen to me, but do you understand what I'm saying?

Do you know what God wants from us? He wants us to love him, and keep his commandments. If we love him, we love others, and one of the commandments is to love others, so we can't get past the loving others. Yet he STILL wants us to do our best, which means keeping the other commandments. He commands us to accept and apply the atonment of the blood of Jesus to our lives. He commands us to obey the other commandments to the very best of our abilities. By keeping the commandments, we've accepted and acknowledged his lordship over our lives, and we've in essence committed ourselves to him.


I said it before when I first logged on this site. We are here to learn. To grow and to learn, and to become just a little bit better then we were yesterday, and to become better tommorrow then we are today. Eventually, we will become perfect like God, and will return to him. He wants us to return to him. ".... Be ye perfect, as my father in heaven is perfect."

On the contrary, Jesus "broke" the law of Moses on several occasions.....Like this....

John(the author) said that Jesus broke the sabbath....

John 5...18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.




Brother, be glad im not a bettin' man, cause I just would have taken your money...LOL