The Theology of Music

[n david]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Either way it get's old being on a forum that is supposed to be Apostolic and seeing a large majority of posts railing on about the UPC

I agree

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I could not care less if you leave the UPC or not. It just get's old to see everyone come to an Apostolic forum and start with negative stuff about the UPC or negative stereotypes.

True. Out of the all the nations where the UPC has a presence (which is well over 100), out of the thousands and thousands of licensed and unlicensed ministers affiliated with the organization, we have barely a tip of the iceberg experience, and say it's the whole organization that says or does X, Y, and/or Z.

Even if every UPCI licensed pastor in a USA district or state says the same thing about music, or some other subject, it doesn't mean it's the UPCI that teaches or believes that about music, as a whole.

The only thing the UPCI, as a whole, does or does not believe is contained in its articles of faith, and even those are routinely ignored at the ground level, so in what real, tangible way can the "UPCI" be said to believe or teach anything?

It's just a non-living entity. It doesn't believe or teach any more than a tree, brick, or cell phone. It's the resident people who make up the organization that believe and teach. So any critique leveled must be leveled at the individual members of the organization who believe or teach X, Y, and/or Z (regarding music or some other topic).

It would be better said like this: "In my X number of years attending Y church, Pastor Phil N. Theblank taught me to believe such and such about music, but here is why I think he (and not the UPCI) is wrong..."

[Pneuman]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

I invited a friend and co-worker to my church who came from a different Christian background.

He arrived early, during the time when our church prays before service, and someone decided to start playing Skillet over the sound system for some unknown reason.

It was very disturbing to him. His statement was "The Holy Spirit inspires peacefulness. This kind of music isn't holy" (I'm paraphrasing since this was several years back).

I took what he said to heart. I'm not against a single genre music, per se. But I am against the idea of thinking we can just do whatever we want with "our music" while demanding that the people we are trying to win to the Lord should "just deal with it".

My church lost the chance to minister to my friend and co-worker, because of the music.

Currently, I am trying to win a different co-worker, who grew up in a very conservative, hymnal only Baptist church. Getting her to come to my church and getting her past the contemporary, sometimes vapid Pentecostal music, is going to be a big challenge.

I wish it wasn't so.

Thanks for your response Votivesoul. I have a couple of comments for your consideration:

1. There are many people with many varied musical tastes and backgrounds in this world. I believe God has churches with many various tastes in music for this very purpose. Perhaps you could find another church in your area that has musical tastes that are closer to those of the people that you would like to win, unless of course you are trying to win them to your church and not just to Jesus (not meant to be an accusation, just know that this happens, sometimes without our fully knowing this is what we are doing).

2. I am not a huge skillet fan, I like some of their stuff in small doses, but I know of churches that specialize in this genre of music whose purpose it is to reach those to whom this type of music speaks (mainly the younger population). I don't believe this is wrong? Does your church have an outreach plan that includes and targets specific demographics or is it scattershot like most apostolic churches (in my experience anyway)? While we want to reach everyone, it is not always possible to please everyone, and a targeted outreach plan can help solve this issue (at least until you can get some of these people to mature enough in the Lord that they can perform their own targeted outreach).

3. I invited a friend to church several times and he ended up coming to our church dedication service (Nathaniel Wilson and Myles Young ministered, and Pastor Young sang). It was a great service, he loved the music, the preaching, the atmosphere of the presence of God, but he was deterred by the formality of our dress (he attends a non-denom church in the Portland, OR metro area, and area known for being casual). He could not get past the fact that everybody was wearing a tie, and when I said he wouldn't have to wear a tie his comment was, "I could never feel comfortable in that atmosphere." So why do we have to wear ties? We don't, there is not a shred of Bible for it, and yet we possibly turn people away who are not comfortable with this or perhaps do not have the money to dress in this fashion. On the other hand, there are people who truly believe we should put on our very best when we attend the house of God. So, to whom should we minister? Clearly it is difficult to do both.

So it is not just music, but culture that welcome or repel people. We don't always have control over that, but we should do our best to exercise control over the things we can. Like I suggested, is there another church in your area that you can point these people to? Perhaps start with a Bible study and use that time to discuss some of these issues? There may be another route you can take to get these souls to hear the rest of the story without being turned back by something as difficult to affect as culture.

[Pneuman]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

My personal stance on music (Christian or otherwise) is the following:

In order of importance (i.e. how I judge if a song is worthy of my attention/interest):

1.) Life and conduct of the artist/performer
2.) Lyrical Content
3.) Perceived inspiration/motivation behind the song
4.) Perceived feelings/emotions generated in me as I listen
5.) How distracting the song becomes (i.e. does it get stuck in my head ad nauseum?)
6.) Genre or type of music

I think that is a pretty good list. I had to laugh when I read number 5. I am a parent of two small children, 2 and 4 years old. I get some of the most annoying songs stuck in my head! LOL!

[Pneuman]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I could not care less if you leave the UPC or not. It just get's old to see everyone come to an Apostolic forum and start with negative stuff about the UPC or negative stereotypes.

I can agree with that. I try not to throw around stereotypes Praxeas, but give specific experience. I know that not all UPC churches or districts match my experience, but I think there are specific doctrines espoused by the organization itself that are damaging and where I can connect those to my experience I will give my testimony of deliverance in hopes that others will hear and question the erroneous teachings that they have received and seek their own answers through the Word of God, the final answer to all things! If something does not match the word of God, I believe it is essential to call it out, regardless of who it may offend. To claim it is unfair to connect it to a specific organization is something I have never understood.

I will do my best to be fair when I discuss the UPC or any other organization. I have no vested interest in bashing anybody for the purpose of creating some form of damage. I was saved while in the UPC and I do not disbelieve others can be saved in the UPC, even if I don't fully agree with some of their doctrinal stands.

Feel free to call me out if you feel that I am not being fair. I am not above correction, and sometimes the balance of another opinion is the best way for others to get the full picture.

Cheers!

[KeptByTheWord]

Just wanted to say Pneuman... I don't think you were bashing the UPC... although those who are ready to defend it, may assume that is the case. I have experienced many of the same things you did, but not just in the UPC, but also in other organizations, but the last organization we were a part of was UPC. I think that you have raised valid points about the music, again, not just in the UPC, but other organizations too.

As others have already stated, music is a medium that reaches far beyond dialogue, and penetrates the heart, mind and soul; therefore, it can be a great tool to encourage the presence of the Lord.

However, there is a fine line between music that edifies, and glorifies the Lord, and music that simply is human effort, talent, and ability on display. Not sure that it is something that you can pinpoint easily, but discussion about this subject is necessary, I believe.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Pneuman

I think that is a pretty good list. I had to laugh when I read number 5. I am a parent of two small children, 2 and 4 years old. I get some of the most annoying songs stuck in my head! LOL!

My kids are about the same age (the oldest turns 4 this July). Lots of Veggie Tales tunes swirling around the mind any given week.

[Pneuman]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

My kids are about the same age (the oldest turns 4 this July). Lots of Veggie Tales tunes swirling around the mind any given week.

LOL! Yes, and sometimes the entire silly song countdown to keep me company!

[jediwill83]

We arr the piraaaaaates that dont do anything!!!! *See what I did there? I spelled are as arrr...cause you know.....pirates* hehe

[Pneuman]

Here is an interesting article that popped up today on my Facebook feed that addresses this same question. I think Switchfoot has a pretty good handle on raising this question to a new level.

http://faithlikes.com/2014/04/05/thi...songs-anymore/


I am interested in hearing what others think of their perspective.

pneuman