Need Scripture about transfer

[Dordrecht]

This regulation is just another man made
requirement that worked it's way into the church.

It's not in scripture.

I ran into this last year when I decided to go to another church.
I refused to act on it.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by ILG

It's one of those control freaky sicknesses that's in the UPC. But before we pastored, it was drilled into us to do this.

It could be seen that way, but it also, if followed as an ministerial ethic, can be seen as a high level of protection.

Too many wandering stars hop in and out of local assemblies, with no one knowing who they are or where they came from or why they showed up to begin with. And no one realizes they are wells without water until it's too late.

[votivesoul]

By the way, this isn't an article. Rather, it's under a section called ministerial ethics. It's not required for fellowship. It's merely recommended to help keep unity between ministers.

[missourimary]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

It could be seen that way, but it also, if followed as an ministerial ethic, can be seen as a high level of protection.

Too many wandering stars hop in and out of local assemblies, with no one knowing who they are or where they came from or why they showed up to begin with. And no one realizes they are wells without water until it's too late.

IF. But sadly, some have good reason for leaving but don't want to say anything about the situation. So should they be sacrificed in the name of safety? If we believe a person must stay in the church to be saved, how can we limit them in where they attend?

[n david]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

By the way, this isn't an article. Rather, it's under a section called ministerial ethics. It's not required for fellowship. It's merely recommended to help keep unity between ministers.

I found the information I posted under "Local Church Government," page 127 and 128 of the 2012 UPCI Manual. I didn't notice before, but now see that it states:

"The following is provided as a sample form for the local church government. It is necessary that each church have its own written set of bylaws which have been approved by the local congregation and signed by the local church officials. This is being offered as a guideline for the local church to use in establishing the documents as required by various governmental agencies."

Page 173 has "Ethics (Ministerial) - Not laws to govern but principles to guide."

• Striving to be a good minister of the Lord Jesus Christ,
• I will constantly prepare myself in body, mind, and spirit.
• I will safeguard the good name of the ministry; [I will] speak the truth in love, live honestly, and avoid embarrassing debts.
• I will hold as sacred all confidences shared with me.
• I will exercise the authority of a spiritual leader rather than that of a dictator.
• I will seek to minister rather than to be ministered unto, placing service above salary and personal recognition, and the unity and welfare of the church above my own personal welfare.
• I will seek to lead my church to accept its full responsibility for community and world service.
• I will seek to build my church without discrediting other churches, soliciting members therefrom, or casting reflection on other ministers.
• I will not compete with another minister for a call to a pastorate in an unethical manner.
• I will, with my resignation, sever my pastoral relations with any former parishioner and will not make pastoral contacts in the field of another pastor without his or her knowledge and consent.
• I will not accept the pastorate of a United Pentecostal Church unless I am in accord with the Articles of Faith and Constitution of the general church body.
• Having accepted a pastorate, I will not use my influence to alienate the church or any portion thereof from the fellowship or support of the United Pentecostal Church International. If my convictions change, I will be honorable enough to withdraw.

Nothing about letters there.

Source Link - 2012 UPCI Manual

[ILG]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

It could be seen that way, but it also, if followed as an ministerial ethic, can be seen as a high level of protection.

But it doesn't work because half the ministers don't do it. Anyway, I am against it because people should be able to choose.

[KeptByTheWord]

These kind of "transfer" rules are in place, because ultimately, a kingdom is being built, and it is the kingdom of a man in a local church, not God's church. If the spirit of the Lord were operating in each assembly as it should, then a man would not try to hold onto a family and keep them from moving. He is resisting the move because essentially it means part of his paycheck would be leaving too... but if pastors were operating under the knowledge that it is GOD's church, they would have more compassion on those who have to move because of work, family situations, or whatever the case may be.

Unfortunately, the entire church system (not just OP) has bought into the Catholic system where money is at the very root of all evil that goes on. Why would a pastor not want a saint to leave? Most of the time, it is because part of his paycheck would be leaving, and it is a decrease of his kingdom.

If pastors were to understand that they are not building a physical kingdom, but a spiritual kingdom for the Lord, then this problem would not be an issue.

Believe me, the root of the problem most of the time boils right down to the money. I've seen it way too many times.

The exception to this is that there are people who are "wandering souls" who travel around from church to church for various reasons, but again, if the spirit of the Lord was operating in their hearts, and in the ministry as it should, no doubt this would not be a problem, because the Spirit of the Lord would help pinpoint the problem that caused them to wander around, and would center them, and help them find a place where they can worship, minister, and be an effective part of the local congregation.

[n david]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

These kind of "transfer" rules are in place, because ultimately, a kingdom is being built, and it is the kingdom of a man in a local church, not God's church. If the spirit of the Lord were operating in each assembly as it should, then a man would not try to hold onto a family and keep them from moving. He is resisting the move because essentially it means part of his paycheck would be leaving too... but if pastors were operating under the knowledge that it is GOD's church, they would have more compassion on those who have to move because of work, family situations, or whatever the case may be.

Unfortunately, the entire church system (not just OP) has bought into the Catholic system where money is at the very root of all evil that goes on. Why would a pastor not want a saint to leave? Most of the time, it is because part of his paycheck would be leaving, and it is a decrease of his kingdom.
If pastors were to understand that they are not building a physical kingdom, but a spiritual kingdom for the Lord, then this problem would not be an issue.

Believe me, the root of the problem most of the time boils right down to the money. I've seen it way too many times.

The exception to this is that there are people who are "wandering souls" who travel around from church to church for various reasons, but again, if the spirit of the Lord was operating in their hearts, and in the ministry as it should, no doubt this would not be a problem, because the Spirit of the Lord would help pinpoint the problem that caused them to wander around, and would center them, and help them find a place where they can worship, minister, and be an effective part of the local congregation.

You're using an incredibly broad brush to paint "Pastors" as evil, money-grubbing, power-hungry, manipulative jerks. I don't believe that was your intent, but that's the way it comes across. "Pastors" are in it for the money, therefore they do all they can to manipulate and control people into staying at their church.

In reality, the "Pastors" you post of are a very very small percentage; while the overwhelming majority are good people who do everything they can to help people, and don't deserve these kind of broad brush accusations.

Not everything is done for sinister reasons. The reason for the inclusion of transfer letters wasn't because greedy, power-mad Pastors wanted to control congregations; else you wouldn't have the verbage (page 128, paragraph 3) which states a transfer letter can only be denied if there is cause by way of confession or conviction.

We should also remember the age and culture when this was included in the Manual. It had everything to do with ethics and nothing to do with money. I wish we could go back in time and see the difference between that era and today. It's really sad.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by n david

You're using an incredibly broad brush to paint "Pastors" as evil, money-grubbing, power-hungry, manipulative jerks. I don't believe that was your intent, but that's the way it comes across. "Pastors" are in it for the money, therefore they do all they can to manipulate and control people into staying at their church.

In reality, the "Pastors" you post of are a very very small percentage; while the overwhelming majority are good people who do everything they can to help people, and don't deserve these kind of broad brush accusations.

Not everything is done for sinister reasons. The reason for the inclusion of transfer letters wasn't because greedy, power-mad Pastors wanted to control congregations; else you wouldn't have the verbage (page 128, paragraph 3) which states a transfer letter can only be denied if there is cause by way of confession or conviction.

We should also remember the age and culture when this was included in the Manual. It had everything to do with ethics and nothing to do with money. I wish we could go back in time and see the difference between that era and today. It's really sad.

Yes, I should not broad brush, certainly not my intention. But, as to the percentage of those who do this, only God knows, but regardless of how many pastors feel this way... it is a problem, enough that I have experienced it in almost every OP church that I have attended, with the exception of one.

[VeridicalAngel]

We are in Cali and a letter or formal permission is needed. Thank you for all the info. Very helpful.