Saved vs striving to be saved??

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Aquila

There are many verses such as this one:

2 Tim 2:21
21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. (KJV)

... and this one...

Eph 5:25-27
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. (KJV)

Sanctification is a process. Initial sanctification takes place when one is born again. However, we are to continue and grow in sanctification throughout our lives. The process ends at death. For those living at the time of Christ's coming it will end with the rapture. The final result for all believers is glorification.

In 2Timothy there is no process spoken of there rather there is finished work notice that the word sanctified is in the past tense also it says if something done then that man would be sanctified that shows a finished work not an on going process other wise it would have said as a man purges himself he becomes more sanctified.

In Ephesians again there is no process rather we see Jesus washing us so that we can be not become but be holy.

Neither passage shows a process but both show a finished work that is avail able for Christians.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Luke

In 2Timothy there is no process spoken of there rather there is finished work notice that the word sanctified is in the past tense also it says if something done then that man would be sanctified that shows a finished work not an on going process other wise it would have said as a man purges himself he becomes more sanctified.

In Ephesians again there is no process rather we see Jesus washing us so that we can be not become but be holy.

Neither passage shows a process but both show a finished work that is avail able for Christians.

that is not necessarily true. It matters concerning context. I can speak of the general state of someones condition as having been or is santified but still know it is a on going process. We are constantly set apart in use.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

that is not necessarily true. It matters concerning context. I can speak of the general state of someones condition as having been or is santified but still know it is a on going process. We are constantly set apart in use.

That makes no sense once I have been set apart and made holy (sanctified) as long as I stay sanctified why is there any need for me to be set apart again and again? Is God simply repeating His previously completed work because He is bored and has nothing else to do?

[bbyrd009]

touche'
but very nice, Aquila.

[Godsdrummer]

Why do we make serving God so hard? Jesus was very specific when he states what his Commandments are, as has been posted. Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Beyond this we want to add every time Christ gave a instruction to the list of commandments. Then we go farther, and add anything that is percived as a commandment to the list. The intent is good, as the saying goes, "I don't want to miss one thing that God wants me to do and miss going to heaven". The problem is this is exactaly what the religious leaders of Christ day were doing, and we know how Christ delt with them. He told them they were white washed tombs full of dead mens bones.

We miss the spirit behind every teaching or instruction. One of the biggest examples of this is the one that started this thread in the first place. The subject of Deut 22:5. Many want to bring that one verse down into todays society and force it to mean what they deem it to say. Missing the whole intent and spirit to which it was addressed in that day.

Every instruction Moses wrote to the Isrealite in the books of the Law were directly related to the 10 commandments. Of which Christ shows us are based on two simple commandments: Love God, and Love your neighbor.
Christianity should come down to this, If you love your neighbor you love God. And if you love God you will love your neighbor.

Which brings us to the subject of this thread, are you saved or stiving to be saved. To understand this we must understand what Christ did on the cross. The angel told Daniel that Messiah would bring and end to sin and transgression. Most of us miss the true meaning of this, it does not mean that there would not be sin in the world, it simply meant that the penalty for sin was paid. That Christ by the cross became our righteousness, that by faith in the work of the Cross we hide in the righteousness of Christ, and that when God looks at us he does not see our sin but sees us sinless. This is done by faith alone, not one thing can we do to earn this. This was done for one reason and one reason alone. Not to get us into heaven, rather to bring us back into relationship with God in this life. Heaven is the by product if you please, that relationship in this life with God gives us.

I have used the marriage relationship as an example before and will use it again. There are two types of marriage, acctualy there are more but... One type is where the husband and wife live in confidence of their love one to another, and because of their love they do that which is pleasing to each other because they love each other. The dwell in unity and peace, and their is joy in their life.
The other are when the two have put stipulations on each other, and when they do not live up to those expectations, their is disunity, they fight and bicker, they live a life of hell on earth. This is because they have placed unfounded expectations on one another that neither can live up to.

Performance based religion does this, placing unfounded expectations on the life of a Christian. The fact is we cannot be perfect, and when we try and become perfect with man made rules and traditions, we cause each one of us to miss the true relationship we can have with God in this life, because we are so wrapped up in trying to be perfect to please God.

[Michael The Disciple]

If one just considers what Jesus said about the topic it becomes very clear.

Luke 13:23-27

23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved ? And he said unto them, 24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in , and shall not be able . 25 When once the master of the house is risen up , and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying , Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are : 26 Then shall ye begin to say , We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say , I tell you, I know you not whence ye are ; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

Many will TALK about entering the kingdom. Only the few who strive to make it will be there. All others will be shut out.

Yeshua makes it plain and simple. The false teachings of today are designed to lead men away from such plainness. To make them think OH NO YOU NEED NOT STRIVE TO ENTER IN!

Most agree with him and want everyone one else to.

[Godsdrummer]

Michael
Suppose with me a moment, that we are in the kingdom of God. That the judgemnt of God and his coming has already happened. I know I Know it goes agianst the grain of everything you have been told about the end times.

Just suppose the end time spoken in the bible all the judgements that were to come were those that came on Isreal in 70ad. for the crucifixtion. Which I might add was the greatest sim mankind could and ever will commit. And that the destroying of God's enemies was exactaly that. The destroying of those that put his son on the cross and did not repent even when given one generation to repent.

Now when given this example the number of Jews that were saved in relationship to the number that were judged and destroyed by Rome in 70ad fits this scripture teaching that you have given.

Just as many have forced the meaning of scripture in other areas that were to those Jesus was directly speaking to, as in Matt 24. When Jesus spoke of the end the age of the Law. Just as God is was willing that any should perish in that day, although we know that many did, because they would not repent of the greatest sin ever know to mankind. God destroyed all those that continued to sacrifice animals and continued in the Law, after he provided himself as the perfect sacrifice. Those that were looking for a litural earthly kingdom thinking the kingdom of God, was one that was not a spiritual kingdom. How many times did Jesus say my kingdom is not of this world?

Let me ask this in another way, What more do you want God to do other than what he has already done? He reconciled mankind back to God, restoring the relationship mankind had in the garden, by his death on the cross. All one must do is accept this by faith. From there one serves God out of love for what he has done out of Love for us.

Does this mean we don't live a life pleasing to God? Not at all, after all did not Paul say, "what shall we continue in sin that grace may abound, God forbid, they that are free from sin live no longer there in." The fact is we don't have to stive to live for God, when we walk after the spirit, "for they that walk after the spirit do mind the things of God". They that are walking after the spirit are pleasing God. They walk after the flesh, do mind the things of the flesh. Those that strive to live for God by their rules, and regulations are those that are walking after the flesh. They have fallen back into keeping of the law.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Luke

In 2Timothy there is no process spoken of there rather there is finished work notice that the word sanctified is in the past tense also it says if something done then that man would be sanctified that shows a finished work not an on going process other wise it would have said as a man purges himself he becomes more sanctified.

In Ephesians again there is no process rather we see Jesus washing us so that we can be not become but be holy.

Neither passage shows a process but both show a finished work that is avail able for Christians.

If you don't believe we need to grow in personal sanctification... well.. that's on you. lol

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Luke

That makes no sense once I have been set apart and made holy (sanctified) as long as I stay sanctified why is there any need for me to be set apart again and again? Is God simply repeating His previously completed work because He is bored and has nothing else to do?

From glory to glory.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

If one just considers what Jesus said about the topic it becomes very clear.

Luke 13:23-27

23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved ? And he said unto them, 24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in , and shall not be able . 25 When once the master of the house is risen up , and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying , Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are : 26 Then shall ye begin to say , We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say , I tell you, I know you not whence ye are ; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

Many will TALK about entering the kingdom. Only the few who strive to make it will be there. All others will be shut out.

Yeshua makes it plain and simple. The false teachings of today are designed to lead men away from such plainness. To make them think OH NO YOU NEED NOT STRIVE TO ENTER IN!

Most agree with him and want everyone one else to.

Yes, few will enter in. Let's talk about that...

You'll notice... every "religious" Christian, pastor, church, denomination, sect, and religion has a massive list of rules. Interestingly, the older the religion or denomination, the longer their list of rules. And you'll also notice that these rules often differ from Christian to Christian, pastor to pastor, church to church, denomination to denomination, sect to sect, and from religion to religion. It's all an arbitrary subjective framework built on the relative interpretations of men. And each thinks that their interpretation is straight from the Holy Throne of God. Even wars have been faught over it, resulting in the deaths of an untold number of human beings. Religious legalism is part of the sinful nature. It's man's attempt to be holy and justified before God based on performance and merit. The core of this issue is... pride. There is a distinct thrill in listing what one believes to be "the way", especially if there are some esoteric commandments that will siphon off new believers from Christ into being followers of a specific methodology of religious practice based on human opinion. It's a spirit.

So, Michael, you're so very right. Few can actually grasp the depth and power of realizing that God simply desires that we love Him... and that we demonstrate that love by loving others as ourselves. It's a very narrow path. Few receive that revelation. The vast majority are lost in their religion saying, "Surely we must do more to please God than love... I think God is telling us to wear tin foil hats! And if one doesn't wear a tin foil hat... well obviously they don't love God!" lol

It is written:

Romans 13:9-10
King James Version (KJV)
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.