Still Believe In Final Salvation? - Page 2

TGBTG · #11 03-01-2013, 08:48 AM

MTD,

Teach on it...

navygoat1998 · #12 03-01-2013, 08:57 AM

Hebrews 12:1-2

12 Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,

2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Aquila · #13 03-01-2013, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Many Pentecostals no longer seem to believe we need to be "finally saved". I mean like Yeshua said:

9Then shall they deliver you upto be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.10And then shall many be offended , and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.11And many false prophets shall rise , and shall deceive many.12And because iniquity shall abound , the love of many shall wax cold .13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved .

If one endures to the end THE SAME SHALL BE SAVED.

Seems to me like their is INITIAL salvation and there is FINAL salvation.

What do you think?

Great point.

As you know, I believe in categorical theological reasoning. Therefore, salvation is both "now" and "not yet". It is "now" in the sense that we are presently saved, filled with the Spirit, and walking with the LORD. In the sense of being "not yet", our salvation/redemption will be complete if we endure unto the end, rather that be the end of our earthly lives or the coming of the LORD.

So am I saved right now? Yes.
Will I be saved at the end? Only if I endure and remain in the faith unto the end.

Aquila · #14 03-01-2013, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I thought all we needed to do was to speak Hebrew?

Aquila · #15 03-01-2013, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by houston

He that is saved shall endure until the end.

Depends on perspective.

Remember, there is a temporal, or human, perspective and a divine perspective. God, knowing all things, already knows who are His and will therefore endure unto the end. Thus to God, yes, the saved will endure. However, from a human perspective, we are trapped in time and do not know the future. Therefore, we must endure if we wish to be counted among those that God already knows will endure and counts as being saved.

Again, categorical logic and reasoning is a necessity to reconcile the mysteries of God.

When seeking truth that extends beyond time and space, one must be able to think multidimensionally. Sometimes two truths that appear to be contradictory are actually a single reality viewed from different points of reference. If we fail to think in this way... we become hardcore Reformed believers or Legalists... and miss the point.

Aquila · #16 03-01-2013, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Cave paintings.

Aquila · #17 03-01-2013, 11:34 AM

Sadly, a failure to think in distinct categories results in fellow saints of God pitching one proof text against another... thereby canceling out God's truth and leading the unregenerated to assume that the Bible is just a contradictory mess of human religious teaching.

But we are not ignorant of the devil's devices.

Michael The Disciple · #18 03-01-2013, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Great point.

As you know, I believe in categorical theological reasoning. Therefore, salvation is both "now" and "not yet". It is "now" in the sense that we are presently saved, filled with the Spirit, and walking with the LORD. In the sense of being "not yet", our salvation/redemption will be complete if we endure unto the end, rather that be the end of our earthly lives or the coming of the LORD.

So am I saved right now? Yes.
Will I be saved at the end? Only if I endure and remain in the faith unto the end.

Hit out of the park

KeptByTheWord · #19 03-01-2013, 09:18 PM

Aquila, you said it very, very well!

I have never understood the "once saved-always saved" idea. Apparently those who believe this didn't read any of the teachings to the seven churches in Revelation.

Reading Christ's admonition to the churches - the "saved" - revealed that it was obvious even though they had done all the right things in the beginning, as time went on, they began to add and take away essential things for salvation. Jesus warned them "He that "overcometh" will I grant to sit with me in my throne." Along with overcoming, Jesus gave strong admonition to hear His words, and to change their ways, or else "I will spue thee out of my mouth."

This blows that theory out of the water that once you are saved, that it is a forever thing...

So, there must be endurance to the end in order to complete our salvation.

seekerman · #20 03-01-2013, 10:12 PM

Scripturally speaking, when is a person 'unsaved' or 'unborn again'? If it's when one does not endure, what does that mean? Falling down, failing, sinning once, twice, a dozen times? Identify the point where one does not endure (whatever that means) and subsequently God discards the redemption of the individual who was purchased by the blood of the Lamb.