Oneness Pentecostals and The Blood Of The Lamb

[Kingdom heir]

As far as I know the oneness people do believe in the Blood of the Lamb and it being applied. I have been oneness for all of my life and that is into the 70 years and have always believed in the efficacy of the blood. I do not understand why some try to say that we do not believe that. There may be those who like to get technical and argue about when the blood is applied, but we definitely believe that the blood was shed for us. That is settled as far as I am concerned.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Kingdom heir

As far as I know the oneness people do believe in the Blood of the Lamb and it being applied. I have been oneness for all of my life and that is into the 70 years and have always believed in the efficacy of the blood. I do not understand why some try to say that we do not believe that. There may be those who like to get technical and argue about when the blood is applied, but we definitely believe that the blood was shed for us. That is settled as far as I am concerned.

I was oneness pentecostal for about 40 years and I never remember, other than general statements about the blood such as you've made, the blood being taught as the redemptive element for mankind. Almost always the message was tongues, correct baptism and standards. I never once heard a in depth study of the blood of the Lamb of God or the cross and the results of the cross and the blood of the Lamb of God and how it related to redemption.

Redemption is foreign to most oneness pentecostals for in oneness pentecostalism the focus isn't the cross or the Lamb which is the true basis for redemption. Fudge's book "Christianity Without The Cross" is a very accurate description of the message of oneness pentecostalism and it's dismissal to a much lessor position the blood of the Lamb of God, secondary to tongues-baptism-standards. Another example would be Bernard's books, "The New Birth" and "The Oneness of God" which is indicative of the importance of what the gospel message is within oneness pentecostalism. As I understand it, both books are required reading for those seeking licensing by the UPC but, revealingly, Bernard didn't place the same level of importance on the cross and the blood of the Lamb of God or something would have been written on the doctrine and made a part of required reading for UPC ministers.

The implicit message of the oneness pentecostal gospel is that the blood of the Lamb of God applied/imputed unto a person is actually worthless in and of itself. One should focus on tongues-baptism-standards instead of the blood of the Lamb of God is the implicit or explicit gospel. That's why the study of redemption by blood of the Lamb of God is very rare within oneness pentecostalism.

[Kingdom heir]

I do not believe "seekerman" has ever been a oneness pentecostal. His message is very much the current subject the trinitarians are teaching now. Oneness people believe in repentence, baptism in Jesus Name and the infilling of the holy ghost and we believe that Christ shed his bled for our sins and because of that shed blood our sins are remitted. Do not know what school of theology you actually come from, but I sugggest you were not oneness at any time or you would not have made the statements you made. I have never ever know of standards being taught as part of repentence. I have always understood that God takes care of convicting a person of what they need to do to live for him and that He will lead us in all truth and righteousness and we do not have to have a man governing our every move. That is not a truth at all that is being expounded by some of you people on here.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Kingdom heir

I do not believe "seekerman" has ever been a oneness pentecostal. His message is very much the current subject the trinitarians are teaching now. Oneness people believe in repentence, baptism in Jesus Name and the infilling of the holy ghost and we believe that Christ shed his bled for our sins and because of that shed blood our sins are remitted. Do not know what school of theology you actually come from, but I sugggest you were not oneness at any time or you would not have made the statements you made. I have never ever know of standards being taught as part of repentence. I have always understood that God takes care of convicting a person of what they need to do to live for him and that He will lead us in all truth and righteousness and we do not have to have a man governing our every move. That is not a truth at all that is being expounded by some of you people on here.

I'm certainly not here purposely telling a lie about being raised in and part of oneness pentecostalism for about 40 years. I have no reason to lie and honestly I'm offended that you would accuse me of purposely and maliciously lying about that. If you don't wish to believe it, that's your choice. But your accusation is false. It's a lie.

As I pointed out in my previous post, redemption by the blood of the Lamb of God is foreign to most oneness pentecostals and your post is supportive of that statement. Did you reference redemption by the blood of the Lamb in your false accusation against me? No, as typical of oneness pentecostals, redemption isn't part of your vocabulary.

Tell me about redemption by the blood of the Lamb if you would. How and when is one redeemed by the blood?

This should be interesting.

[Kingdom heir]

Yes, redemption is part of our vocabulary. One is redeemed at the time of baptism in Jesus Name. There is no remission of sins except for the shedding of blood, which was shed on the cross for our sins. The blood is applied when sins are washed away in baptism. Acts 2:38. If you do not believe the message of repentence, baptism and the infilling of the holy ghost then our discussion is in vain.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Kingdom heir

Yes, redemption is part of our vocabulary. One is redeemed at the time of baptism in Jesus Name. There is no remission of sins except for the shedding of blood, which was shed on the cross for our sins. The blood is applied when sins are washed away in baptism. Acts 2:38. If you do not believe the message of repentence, baptism and the infilling of the holy ghost then our discussion is in vain.

Great, let's talk about redemption. Assuming for the sake of argument that one is redeemed at baptism, would this suggest that the individual is God's at that time? What is redeemed? Secondly, explain how the cross is involved in one's redemption if you would.

[crakjak]

The work of the cross, brings redemption to all humanity, just as the sin of Adam brought the curse of sin. "...how much more doth the righteous act of that one Man..."
The high priest's sin offering in the Holy of Holies, covered the sin of all Israel, "...how much more doth the righteous act of that one Man...." "...the perfect Lamb..."????

Individually, one must believe to enter into what Christ has done....for though the work is finished, if not received and believed, one will continue to harvest the fruit of sin which is death. However, this physical life is not the end, "...all will be salted with fire..." by ...our God is a refiners fire..." the gold will be recovered, the kernel of wheat will be harvested...the dross and the chaff will be burned up. God is not a monster, whose love turns to hate...His "...anger will not continue forever...."

[preacher clk]

The high priest only rolled the sin away for a year. It was and had to be done each year. Plus there was plenty of self sacrifices daily. The blood of Jesus done away with the old law and now we live under grace.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Eph 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace

1Pe 1:18 knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, 19 but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.

Why don't the oneness Pentecostals believe in the sufficiency of the blood of the Lamb?

The blood of the Lamb is sufficient to "redeem" us, or pay our ransom. And what held us ransom? God's own justice.

However, what "saves" us, according to Titus 3:5 is "washing of rebirth and renewing of the Holy Ghost". This is when God himself comes to live in our hearts by his Spirit, baptizing us into the body of Christ. The blood of the Lamb bought this Holy Ghost renewing for us.

Paul said in Romans 5:10.....

For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his LIFE!

His blood reconciled us so God could SAVE us by Christ's LIFE. It's the LIFE that actually does the saving. And what is this LIFE that saves us? Paul tells us in Romans 8:11....

And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

Romans 5:10, 8:11 and Titus 3:5 all agree.

The blood paves the way for the Spirit of God to be able to dwell in us who were estranged from God by sin. But the blood (his death) without the Spirit ( his life) has no meaning.

Seekerman really does not understand what the sufficiency of the blood brings about.

[Originalist]

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