Trying to Rescue Another from HMH Doctrine

[Dordrecht]

Please people get real!

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Sam

1 Try to imitate me, even as I myself try to imitate the Messiah
2 Now I praise you because you have remembered everything I told you and observe the traditions just the way I passed them on to you. 3..But I want you to understand that the head of every man is the Messiah, and the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of the Messiah is God. 4..Every man who prays or prophesies wearing something down over his head brings shame to his head, 5..but every woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled brings shame to her head — there is no difference between her and a woman who has had her head shaved. 6..For if a woman is not veiled, let her also have her hair cut short; but if it is shameful for a woman to wear her hair cut short or to have her head shaved, then let her be veiled. 7..For a man indeed should not have his head veiled, because he is the image and glory of God, and the woman is the glory of man. 8..For man was not made from woman, but woman from man; 9..and indeed man was not created for the sake of the woman but woman for the sake of the man. 10..The reason a woman should show by veiling her head that she is under authority has to do with the angels. 11..Nevertheless, in union with the Lord neither is woman independent of man nor is man independent of woman; 12..for as the woman was made from the man, so also the man is now born through the woman. But everything is from God. 13..Decide for yourselves: is it appropriate for a woman to pray to God when she is unveiled? 14..Doesn’t the nature of things itself teach you that a man who wears his hair long degrades himself? 15..But a woman who wears her hair long enhances her appearance, because her hair has been given to her as a covering. 16..However, if anyone wants to argue about it, the fact remains that we have no such custom, nor do the Messianic communities of God.
1 Corinthians 11:1-16 from the CJB (Complete Jewish Bible)

This brings about a different perspective about what is to be a woman's covering when she prays.

I remember when growing up in the Catholic church, we used to wear veils when entering the church. Some were small...like a doily on top of the head. Others were triangular shaped and sheer, like a folded scarf. When they quit requiring that practice...I don't know. Perhaps it was when Vatican II changed the services. But this is just an aside.

Sister Falla, I don't know anybody who cuts their hair actually criticizes those who do not cut their hair. If they criticize, then perhaps it is a defense mechanism because although you may not shun women who do cut their hair, there are plenty of women who do shun them and talk about them. My apologies if I ever come across as doing that for it is not my intention. I am more defending my position and do not believe that those with uncut hair should be, and some do, judging those to hell for cutting their hair. We are not taken seriously by conservative UPC women when we share a word about God with other women. Sometimes we get stared at when sharing ...like what do you know? Sorry, but that has been my experience and it is frustrating.

Perhaps about as frustrating as Elder Epley feels when he feels insulted by those who lump him in with the HMH doctrine. But, Elder Epley dishes out insults himself at times to people on this board. Perhaps he does not realize how he comes across when he makes some posts. Maybe he does and maybe he does not care because he's a preacher and feels entitled to speak or judge in some ways. He does not know that some people who leave UPC do so because they have been mistreated and largely do not consider any person of apostolic belief deserving of more respect than others in light of how some act.

A good thing to remember is that respect begets respect. If one wants respect, then perhaps we all should check ourselves and give the same respect to others that we would like to receive.

[houston]

So now uncut hair doctrine is MORE TRUTH???

[The Lemon]

...and the wheels on the bus go round' and round', all through the town....

Seriously, I have lived on both sides - I was not always saved and neither was my wife. My lineage as far as Petecost goes originates in the Apostolic movement. My Great Grandparents were Apostolic and they and their church left the org. they were in and became Assembly of God. Long and short...no pun intended...they left over extreeme legalism in the Apostolic org.

My grandmother has had MANY notible miracles and has been a Bible reading and Holy Ghost filled believer ever since I have known her...she is 85yrs old. Some of the stories about the miracles God worked in hers and my Granfather's life as they raised 5-children are amazing. She cut her hair the first time when she was 18yrs old in the 1940's, and has never had "long" hair since then.

I have no problem with those who claim uncut hair and practice it any more then I do with those who do not hold the same view...but again, each side adamantly believes they are right and use personal and family stories to back the claim. If both sides of this issue have similar stories of the "power" working in their life then we either have a problem or we don't....I lean more towards we don't.

In my years before I was saved I never heard anybody mention anything about hair. After coming into the Apostolic church then I heard it, and to be frank...the only negative responses I ever heard were from Apostolics concerning those who did cut / trim / burn their hair.

Bottom line...unless you are Omni-present like God, you can't possibly have known what every other church did or preached regardless of denomination...period. The only vantage point you have is your own, and that is why this subject is argued endlessly.

I for one think we have much larger issues in these last days then hair length...but that's just me...

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by houston

So now uncut hair doctrine is MORE TRUTH???

Houston,
Surely you are saying that TIC, BUT the MORE TRUTH that I am speaking about is that you should receive the HOLY GHOST WHEN YOU BELIEVE!!!
The Power to OVERCOME and TO BE HIS WITNESSES comes AFTER the HOLY GHOST is come upon you and have allowed HIM TO BE IN CONTROL!

Falla39

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by The Lemon

...and the wheels on the bus go round' and round', all through the town....

Yeah and it seems like that bus never stops for gas either.

[Jay]

Barb and Sis. Falla, I have Bible Missionaries who have their headquarters in our area, and they look exactly like Oneness Pentecostals used to look not that long ago. In fact, I am guaranteed that if I see a lady in modest apparel, that she is more often than not a member of one of the churches in this area. They split from the Church of the Nazarene and various other denominations during the late 50s over the issue of hair, jewelry, television, movies, organized sports, pants on women, shorts on men, and makeup to name only the major points.


My great-great grandmother was a member of the AOG, and we have pictures of her in long dresses, hair uncut, and no makeup. And she was an older lady by the time that these pictures were taken, and we can prover that her daughter (my great-grandmother) was raised and lived by these standards for many years before those pictures were taken. In thinking about it, I might not have gone back far enough in my generational listing, but the truth of the post remains unaffected.


The issue is far older than those who wish to compromise the message of standards and separation would have us believe.

[Steve Epley]

I can remember when both the AG & the CoG relaxed their position on women cutting their hair.

[Jay]

Grandpa remembers people in his Baptist church looking and worshiping like Pentecostals, and I have heard others say the same about Methodists even as late as the 50s.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by Jay

Grandpa remembers people in his Baptist church looking and worshiping like Pentecostals, and I have heard others say the same about Methodists even as late as the 50s.

There are still some like that today. I asked a lady I worked with once if she was Pentecostal and she said NO!!