Rejoicing In the Sabbath: - Page 41

Titus2woman · #**401** 02-14-2012, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Think of this. The sabbath showed man working physically BEFORE he would rest. And that was demanded. It slipped right into Law since it went along with the whole system of self making self improved.

The church distinctly gathered the first day of the week. Think of the spiritual message. WORSHIP BEFORE we work. Seventh day of rest denotes work before rest. First day of WORSHIP (not rest) denotes a SPIRITUAL REST before work. And this is what the cross did! We entered into the death of Christ by the cross and walk in newness of life.

The first day of the week was when Christ arose. That is the day the church gathered in Acts. It spiritually depicts resurrection LIFE before we work, to actually give us the power TO WORK. First day of the week is not a sabbath so it is a strawman to say those who worship on sundays got a tradition of sabbath changed from seventh day to first day.

We see the resurrection power of the Lord come forth in us BEFORE we work. And that resurrection life is a SPIRITUAL REST.

I like this, it's sweet, it has appeal... kind of like the story of the candy cane that goes around in emails at Christmas... But just like the candy cane story, it's not true. What is true is exactly what Aquila has explained at length. That the day of worship was changed at the councils... at the same time that the creeds were established and trinity was adopted. Those councils were not about keeping things as the apostles did or about keeping them the way God ordained them... They were about how to make Christianity benefit the current government and it leaders current religious traditons. It was a rotten work as has been recognized in some of the great works today such as D. Bernard's 'History of the Christian Church'.

I wish that what you have said here were true Mr Blume, it would uncomplicate my life some... but is simply is not. sorry.

TGBTG · #**402** 02-14-2012, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

I like this, it's sweet, it has appeal... kind of like the story of the candy cane that goes around in emails at Christmas... But just like the candy cane story, it's not true. What is true is exactly what Aquila has explained at length. That the day of worship was changed at the councils... at the same time that the creeds were established and trinity was adopted. Those councils were not about keeping things as the apostles did or about keeping them the way God ordained them... They were about how to make Christianity benefit the current government and it leaders current religious traditons. It was a rotten work as has been recognized in some of the great works today such as D. Bernard's 'History of the Christian Church'.

I wish that what you have said here were true Mr Blume, it would uncomplicate my life some... but is simply is not. sorry.

T2W,
We are not saying the day of worship should be sunday. We are saying there is no special day of worship. Neither Saturday nor Sunday is a day of worship.

With regards to Paul keeping the Sabbath:
Col 2
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Notice that Paul said Sabbath dayS (plural). That would include all Sabbath days in the OT.

TGBTG · #**403** 02-14-2012, 08:37 PM

Moreover, going to Church on Saturday is not the same thing as keeping the Sabbath...

Titus2woman · #**404** 02-14-2012, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGBTG

Moreover, going to Church on Saturday is not the same thing as keeping the Sabbath...

I understand that. It is about God ordained rest and keeping the fourth commandment. Not as a way to be saved but because we are saved and desire to please God by living in the ways he has ordained. Going to 'church' can be done any day or lots of days. We judge no one whether they choose to keep Sabbath or not.

TGBTG · #**405** 02-14-2012, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

I understand that. It is about God ordained rest and keeping the fourth commandment. Not as a way to be saved but because we are saved and desire to please God by living in the ways he has ordained. Going to 'church' can be done any day or lots of days. We judge no one whether they choose to keep Sabbath or not.

That is what Paul was dealing with. We can't please God in any way other than BEING IN Christ.

Gal 3
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

If we keep one commandment of the OT Law, then we're indebted to keep all of them. We can't choose what commandments to keep. God gave Moses more than 10 commandments on Mount Sinai. And those commandments are part of the OLD COVENANT.

Gal 4
21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

As Paul mentioned, only 2 Covenants were given. The first was given from Mount Sinai. That WOULD INCLUDE the 10 commandments. And it LEADS to BONDAGE.

The point we're making in essence is we CANNOT keep the OLD COVENANT simultaneously with the NEW COVENANT. It's either one or the other.

What's your take on Col 2:16-17

johnny44 · #**406** 02-14-2012, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

We have to define work. Is it industriousness for prophet and/or personal gain? Or is it making soup, vacuuming the floors, picking tomatoes out of the gardent, gleaning corn from the edges of crops?

Under the Law of Moses God did emphasize rest to the extreme. But the commandment isn't that extreme. Is picking a tomato from your garden an enjoyable persuit? Is it theraputic? Do you find rest in tending a garden? Rest can be found in fishing. Or even playing with your children in the backyard.

Don"t have a garden.It is theraputic going to church on Sunday.I do find rest going to church on Sunday's.Find rest also to tending to Jesus on Sunday.Find great joy going to church on Sunday with my children.

houston · #**407** 02-14-2012, 09:32 PM

I prefer church on Sunday! After a late night at the club on Friday, I need all day Saturday to sleep. So, I do keep the sabbath. (TIC)

bbyrd009 · #**408** 02-14-2012, 09:56 PM

Well, I'm aware the betrayal at the Council of Trent--not familiar with Nicea. T2W, it only seems natural that those who had seen Christ risen on Sunday would congregate on the same day a week later?

bbyrd009 · #**409** 02-14-2012, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by houston

I prefer church on Sunday! After a late night at the club on Friday, I need all day Saturday to sleep. So, I do keep the sabbath. (TIC)

Sabbath starts Friday at sundown, sorry. And

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Seems to reiterate that we will observe a future Sabbath, like Isaiah, but that the more important thing is the more important thing?

FlamingZword · #**410** 02-14-2012, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGBTG

So now, you're not arguing for keeping the law, but just the Sabbath?

Well, if you would consider this: Physical Circumcision was given way before the law came into place. So do you also teach physical circumcision?

How does this play into your reasoning? Why teach the keeping of a day and exclude physical circumcision?

Lets keep this clear, I have never argued for keeping the Law of Moses, only for keeping the Law of God which was embeded in the Ten Commandments. Huge difference. and I will never stop arguing for the Law of God, which are the Ten Commandments.

The point I am making about the Sabbath is that it existed before there was even the Ten Commanments, so if anyone wants to get rid of the Sabbath because they do not believe the Ten commandments are enforcable, they still have to deal with the Sabbath which existed before them.

Physical circumcision was debated by the early church and was excluded by the church in Jerusalem, so it is not longer binding. The Sabbath was never debated by the early church, so it still stands. For no record of it being abrogated or changed is ever found in the scriptures.

Paul kept the Sabbath, so no you can not use the writtings of Paul to do away with the Sabbath. Paul would not do something and then contradict himself in his letters. Paul was consistent in his actions and theology. No one can use Paul's writing to contradict his actual actions.