Why I returned to UPC!!!!!!!!!

[pastor RICK]

Originally Posted by Aquila

If I were to consider the Apostolic doctrine, I'd see nothing wrong with the notion that God's elect (however you define it) will speak in tongues. The question always arises when people have labored, wept, begged, pleaded, repented, repented, repented, repented, and still they don't have the tongues experience. It can be spiritually brutal.

But the bottom line is... it's God's Spirit. He gives it as He so desires according to His purposes. No one is entitled to the Holy Ghost, only those whom God has chosen (however you wish to define it).

are we speaking of predestination here?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by pastor RICK

are we speaking of predestination here?

I think that is what he implied, but Jesus said the Holy Ghost comes to those who ask for it.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by livefortruth

Then I guess that by your definition Acts 10 is like sex before marriage then huh?
This is what happens when we interpret God's word through our lenses.

Well, livefortruth, if you insist on putting it that way. When they heard the Word, the Holy Ghost (His Love overwhelmed them) fell on them. Just couldn't help themselves.
But Peter still commmanded/insisted they still needed to take HIS Name. Get married. (baptism). LOL!


Falla39

[Jay]

I believe that the point at which a person could truly be said to be married is after the vows. Thus the various trappings that come with the ceremony are nice but irrelevant. At the end of the spoken vows, all is acclomplished, except for the final triumphant declaration. When one has truly repented and been baptized in Jesus name, they will receive the Holy Ghost.

However (I hope I am not mixing metaphores) like a birth, the process can be only partially completed. Thus some truly repent, others continue to either baptism by water or Spirit, and only some come through all three. Those who choose to stop at any point along the way are not saved because they never finished the process. Some need more teaching, others a direct revelation, more need to turn loose of pride or misconceptions. Sometimes there are additional sins that were not repented of before baptism, or were committed after (if we are adhering to the traditional 2:38 formula). All of these can keep people from receiving the Holy Ghost. None of the metaphores or comparisons will be perfect in every way, but are mearly examples so that we may see how all who will come, do come.

There is only one Way, one Truth, one Life, one Hope, one Baptism, one Lord and God, our Lord Jesus Christ.

[lluv4Christ1]

It is truly a wonderful experience! Speaking in tongues is an everyday experience for me, because the Holy Ghost is an intercessor in my prayer time, and it is a perfect prayer according to the will of God. We never know what is said during this intercession, it could be giving thanks, and praise unto God, or for something in our hearts that we do not know how to pray for. The apostle Paul states that it is to edify ourselves [1 Corinthians 14:4]. I love praying in the Spirit, especially when times are most difficult and I do not have the words to pray for my situation.

Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Rom 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what [is] the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to [the will of] God.

I'm very happy for you hadassah! Praise the Lord. We must act in obedient faith because baptism is indeed important. Confession is an act of obedience. Sam is right, it does say that if you call on the name of the Lord thou shall be save. But when Peter spake these things unto the men in the latter part of Acts 2, after being pricked in their hearts, he commanded them all to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins [Acts 2:38]. We must be baptized of the water and the Spirit, or simply we cannot see the kingdom of God [John 3:3]. In Mark 16:16 it is says he the believeth AND is baptized shall be save; he that believeth not shall be damned. So believing is more than just a confession of faith, but one must act upon it as well