Spiritual Abuse: Fact or Fiction

Originally Posted by Rico

Uh yeah, but when you tell people you don't trust pastors anymore then ya get labeled a preacher hater. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. I'm sick of the whole thing and even wanting to have a church to go to. It's not worth all the effort to care anymore.

The problem, though, is that you are taking your experience of one or more pastors and applying that experience to all pastors. It is that broad brushing of yours that gets you labeled a preacher hater.

If you think the effort of taking your place in the body of Christ so that God can use you and help you to grow up in Him is not worth it, then maybe what you really think is that your relationship with Christ isn't worth it.

Christianity is not a democracy. God's word commands you not to forsake the assembling of yourself together with other saints. When you obeyed the gospel call, you became a member of Christ's body whether you like it or not. You don't have the right to withhold yourself from that body!

You need to do some serious fasting and praying to find out exactly where God wants you to be and then you need to obey Him!

[Subdued]

Originally Posted by Chan

It all comes down to one thing: forgiveness - forgiving the people and events of the past the way Christ forgave us (and if you don't know how Christ forgave us, perhaps you should look at certain passages that refer to God casting our sins into the sea, casting them as far as east is from west, and choosing to remember them no more). Of course, such forgiveness often requires divine intervention.

Yes, it certainly does. However, I disagree that forgiveness always removes pain and brings about complete, immediate healing; if that's what you're implying.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by tbpew

Rico,
I only know you from the words you have posted in at a few forums. It does seem (from experiencing your words) that your capacity for compassion and anger are both quite significant.

As your journey takes you through the triggers, discoveries and godly seperation from anger's captivity, please share.

Three years ago I felt inspired by God's wisdom to consider that anger was given occassion based in my application of expectations.

By way of example, the thought God let run through my mind was this; "Why am I so accepting of my neighbors irresponsible conduct with very little reaction, but my wife, with whom I am dependant and often supported by, I can be stirred to anger concerning her actions or words?

An understanding became clear; the opportunity/occassion for anger was based on my preception of expectations.

So the challenge for me and my wife and my children and friends and my brethren is....
1. Who is establishing the expectations?
2. Are they understood and acceptable by all parties involved?
3. Are they established from a motive that is pleasing to the Spirit

If we can approach a spirit that seeks to prefer one another and be subject one to another, the occassion for unrealized expectations will be given little to no space.

just some thoughts....

You are right. I am either hot or cold and very little in between. As far as expectations go, I expect more from ministers than I do anyone else. They're supposed to be God's mouthpiece and an integral part of this journey, so I expect nothing less than honesty and integrity at all times. Maybe it isn't fair to expect more but you'd better have more than I do if you think I am going to follow you anywhere.

Originally Posted by Subdued

Yes, it certainly does. However, I disagree that forgiveness always removes pain and brings about complete, immediate healing; if that's what you're implying.

Forgiveness is where it starts. In dealing with people who struggle with certain sins, I've noticed one common theme: they all had events and people in their past that they have never forgiven and, consequently, they're still holding onto the hurts they suffered and it has caused a root of bitterness to spring up in them that contributes to these certain sins.

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Rico that was metaphor not an exact statement however some seem to have had these hurts for a good while and from their tone things in their lives seem bogged down.

The tone that you hear from some of us (not sure if I am one of the ones you are referring to) is being misinterpreted... it is not that I will not let go of things, or that I am blaming anyone for how my life is... my life is pretty good actually... it is that I intend to speak out against a certain attitude anytime I see it anywhere... it just seems that a lot of times that attitude comes from conservative preachers. I intend to do this for the rest of my life whenever I see someone use guilt or fear to make people believe anything. There is nothing to get over, in my opinion... I have a cause and I am not afraid to step up and look anyone in the eye that has that attitude... the thing is, the people who have this certain attitude are not used to people talking back to them the same way they talk to other people, therefore they think you hate them...

Originally Posted by Rico

You are right. I am either hot or cold and very little in between. As far as expectations go, I expect more from ministers than I do anyone else. They're supposed to be God's mouthpiece and an integral part of this journey, so I expect nothing less than honesty and integrity at all times. Maybe it isn't fair to expect more but you'd better have more than I do if you think I am going to follow you anywhere.

It isn't fair to hold them to a standard to which you are not willing to hold yourself.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

The tone that you hear from some of us (not sure if I am one of the ones you are referring to) is being misinterpreted... it is not that I will not let go of things, or that I am blaming anyone for how my life is... my life is pretty good actually... it is that I intend to speak out against a certain attitude anytime I see it anywhere... it just seems that a lot of times that attitude comes from conservative preachers. I intend to do this for the rest of my life whenever I see someone use guilt or fear to make people believe anything. There is nothing to get over, in my opinion... I have a cause and I am not afraid to step up and look anyone in the eye that has that attitude... the thing is, the people who have this certain attitude are not used to people talking back to them the same way they talk to other people, therefore they think you hate them...

You're right. It's like, "How dare you think you can speak to me that way!" LOL! Highmindedness is what the Bible calls it, I believe.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Chan

It isn't fair to hold them to a standard to which you are not willing to hold yourself.

I've got some news for you. I have never lied to a preacher in all my life. I have always been honest and upfront with every pastor I've ever had, whether they wanted me to be or not. I don't believe in putting on airs and pretending to be anything other that what I am. What you see is what you get, period.

[Subdued]

Originally Posted by Chan

Forgiveness is where it starts. In dealing with people who struggle with certain sins, I've noticed one common theme: they all had events and people in their past that they have never forgiven and, consequently, they're still holding onto the hurts they suffered and it has caused a root of bitterness to spring up in them that contributes to these certain sins.

CHAN!! I completely agree with you!

[Subdued]

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

The tone that you hear from some of us (not sure if I am one of the ones you are referring to) is being misinterpreted... it is not that I will not let go of things, or that I am blaming anyone for how my life is... my life is pretty good actually... it is that I intend to speak out against a certain attitude anytime I see it anywhere... it just seems that a lot of times that attitude comes from conservative preachers. I intend to do this for the rest of my life whenever I see someone use guilt or fear to make people believe anything. There is nothing to get over, in my opinion... I have a cause and I am not afraid to step up and look anyone in the eye that has that attitude... the thing is, the people who have this certain attitude are not used to people talking back to them the same way they talk to other people, therefore they think you hate them...

That's kind of what I was trying to convey when I talked about the kids' at my daughter's school (+ the teachers) refusing to play "Red Rover" anymore - they speak out against it now. You said it better, though, I guess.