The poor in America

[coadie]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Nah its because they are trapped by addictions and when peole give them money, they flow to the gas station or convenience store. Their food is often provided by shelters so they don't use that to buy food. These people don't just need handouts, they need love and compassion and to hear the gospel over and over again until something clicks.. would;nt you say?

Food stamps are food only. They sell those illegally to get smokes and meth.

For real people in real need, they can eat off food stamps. My sister tells me they can't buy soap, smokes, paper products, but those aren't life and starvation death products. She sees people come in her store and buy a pop and candy bar on food stamps.
I keep food in my car. when I get hit for a couple bucks for gas or food, I just give a can of pringles or whatever I have.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by coadie

Food stamps are food only. They sell those illegally to get smokes and meth.

For real people in real need, they can eat off food stamps. My sister tells me they can't buy soap, smokes, paper products, but those aren't life and starvation death products. She sees people come in her store and buy a pop and candy bar on food stamps.
I keep food in my car. when I get hit for a couple bucks for gas or food, I just give a can of pringles or whatever I have.

I gave a beer to a homeless guy once. He said God Bless you. LOL!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Socialite

The Bush administration created about three million jobs (net) over its eight years, a fraction of the 23 million jobs created under President Bill Clinton‘s administration and only slightly better than President George H.W. Bush did in his four years in office.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/...ord-on-record/

Nothing to brag about for sure. And, in the process, he increased the nation's deficit to record numbers, an awkward position for a so-called fiscal conservative.

That doesn't mean either Bush was against job creation. I tend to not believe the self proclaimed success of administrations when it comes to things like the economy other than the debt or the lack of it due to spending cuts.

Im sure Obama wants to create jobs too but so far he is not doing that great a job if job creation was totally dependent on the actions of administrations

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

That doesn't mean either Bush was against job creation. I tend to not believe the self proclaimed success of administrations when it comes to things like the economy other than the debt or the lack of it due to spending cuts.

Im sure Obama wants to create jobs too but so far he is not doing that great a job if job creation was totally dependent on the actions of administrations

This is real simple economics (I am freshwater school. Economists know what that means when i make the claim)

We argue around about the impacts of fiscal or monetary policies. external variables can derail either. A president has a good list of ways he can hurt employment and or growth. He has almost nothing he can do directly to trigger growth.

Obama can only directly create jobs by hiring workers. Like the census.

He can kill job growth very easily. Taxes. Regulation. harrassment (like the tests he ran on large banks)

Regulation. Mandates. Restrictions. Bad mouthing. He bad mouthed execs that flew company jets or did big conventions in vegas

Obama can not at this time make me remodel or buy a bigger house. He can scare an employer and the workers put off buying or building. Had the administration left things alone except 1 or two financial or terror incidents, the economy would have had a good rebound curve for 3 reasons. Interest rates were already very low. Oil dropped to 30 bucks and inflation was low and stabil.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I enjoy your comments in this thread Socialite.

Ditto.

I think this is a subject we think about and discuss way too little.

[aegsm76]

JF - hey what about me?????

[coadie]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

JF - hey what about me?????

You have and post too many facts.

This is an emotional/political issue for liberals.

If we want to discuss actual poor,In other countries, they have no tobacco, meth, cell phones, shoes, clean water etc.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by coadie

You have and post too many facts.

This is an emotional/political issue for liberals.

If we want to discuss actual poor,In other countries, they have no tobacco, meth, cell phones, shoes, clean water etc.

Ironically, nothing here in this post by you except blanket emotional generalizations.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

Ditto.

I think this is a subject we think about and discuss way too little.

Thanks, both of you.

I changed my thinking about poverty in America in the last few years -- I began reading, studying it more closely, and then decided to actually get involved with it directly. I'm not great urban champion, and there's people that work far harder than I do, but just rubbing shoulders with these guys has been eye-opening. And the regurgitated hatred and bigotry slandered against the poor (that ironically just continues the stigmatization and oppression) is all-too-common. It's amazing how much of it just starts to sound the same. Every argument is sliced up in two quadrants: Work hard, try harder, make better choices and you can be all you can be vs. lazy, hobo, slummy, dirty leeches who want to suck off everyone. The result is a rather worldly metric for bringing redemption to a situation, excuses for not making a difference and extra ideological padding for sitting on the sidelines, and bellicose rhetoric.

I recall worshipping the America Dream, it was my God. If someone had brokenness in their life, I went back to the that idol, and told them they just weren't trying hard enough. My focus was on them making money, and I misunderstood what poverty really was, how deep it was, and difficult an oppression it is to overcome.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

JF - hey what about me?????

I disagree with the primary ideas behind your main points: that people in America don't classify as poor since people in other countries are poorer and that if there are poor people then it's their own fault that they are that way. I disagee with those points. No one chooses to be poor just as no one chooses to be robbed just as no one chooses to be raped.

There are poor people in America and I say let them eat, drink and be merry while they can. Saving a few thousand dollars a year isn't going to change their poor status and that is all they would save by stopping their drinking, smoking and so on. So if they feel like skipping a 2nd McDonalds double cheeseburger so they can buy some smokes or a beer what is it to you? Oh, I forgot, you say they aren't poor if they can even buy 1 McDonalds cheeseburger and so they shouldn't even have the option of choosing a 2nd McDonalds cheeseburger or a beer if we are going to help them... WOW!

The conservative mischarecterization of what it takes to be poor is that a true poor person shouldn't have any choices if we are going to help them any and they should be so dependent on what we give them that they cannot make any choices but to use what they have along with what we give them on food and shelter. I disagree with that mischaracterization, I characterize a true poor person as one that is barely making ends meet such that if ANYTHING mich happens then they won't be making ends meet.