The timing of a believer's salvation is predicated upon God's sovereign will, not the will of the believer in question. The timing when one is filled with the Holy Ghost is entirely up to God. All aspects of salvation are predicated upon God's will and grace... not man's effort and desire.
So if Holy Spirit baptism is a requisite for salvation, we now have salvation being given at a "certain time," like this carrot dangling in front of the new believer?
The fact is Christ already did the work and has invited us in by grace through faith. This notion that you just keep trying and eventually God will wake up and save you is bull....... oney.
The Holy Ghost isn't a commandment, its a promise. If someone believe Acts 2:38 and does their part, God will do his. Sometimes it takes time, but to give up is to quit believing the promise is already theirs. Faith is about going on what isn't seen, not what is seen. I know its hard because what some preach from the pulpit, but if those would recognize the power of God's promises, and that they never fail; this would not be an issue with the desperate believe who wants to receive the Holy Ghost to be saved from hell. God will save them if they seek Christ Jesus. Its a promise. So if salvation is a promise and the HG is a promise, one can understand God will come through, no matter how long it takes them to "speak in tongues"
All the cute little tag lines we say, but when viewed in how they are practiced it is not so.
I also believe it's a promise. So what that means is, Spirit Baptism is something Jesus would love the Church to have for mission, and there's no use being anxious about it, saying Acts 2:38 is a command (but then qualifying the Holy Spirit part despite pleading people to "get saved" and come to the front and receive the Spirit)....
We say so many things to smooth this out, but it's like one of those shirts that come pre-packaged... some of those creases just aren't coming out.
So if Holy Spirit baptism is a requisite for salvation, we now have salvation being given at a "certain time," like this carrot dangling in front of the new believer?
The fact is Christ already did the work and has invited us in by grace through faith. This notion that you just keep trying and eventually God will wake up and save you is bull....oney.
My view is bathed in scripture, the entirety of the Story, and is dependent on the cross. Yours is not much better than those self-mutilating Judaizers trying to qualify God's grace by all the extra "filthy rags" they can throw on. Yours has no focus on the cross, except an after-thought. Just talk in tongues... and now just keeping trying really hard and maybe when you die God won't throw you in hell.
All the cute little tag lines we say, but when viewed in how they are practiced it is not so.
I also believe it's a promise. So what that means is, Spirit Baptism is something Jesus would love the Church to have for mission, and there's no use being anxious about it, saying Acts 2:38 is a command (but then qualifying the Holy Spirit part despite pleading people to "get saved" and come to the front and receive the Spirit)....
We say so many things to smooth this out, but it's like one of those shirts that come pre-packaged... some of those creases just aren't coming out.
Yep you apparently don't understand God's promises in the way I'm seeing them. He never fails on his end, NEVER. Tongues or not tongues yet, you are going to get everything you need to be ready to enter heaven, if you continue to trust in Him.
Sort of like the disciples saying, JEsus show us everything NOW.. Jesus says you are not able yet. Or the believer saying, I want all truth now, yet Jesus says the Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth.
Amazing what patience and trust in this book would actually do if apostolics would practice it in these situations.
__________________ To be able to unite in difference carries more weight than all the opinions the universe can hold
Yep you apparently don't understand God's promises in the way I'm seeing them. He never fails on his end, NEVER. Tongues or not tongues yet, you are going to get everything you need to be ready to enter heaven, if you continue to trust in Him.
Sort of like the disciples saying, JEsus show us everything NOW.. Jesus says you are not able yet. Or the believer saying, I want all truth now, yet Jesus says the Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth.
Amazing what patience and trust in this book would actually do if apostolics would practice it in these situations.
Amen to the bolded.
But in practice, and even in the fine print of Apo theology, this is not the case.
So if Holy Spirit baptism is a requisite for salvation, we now have salvation being given at a "certain time," like this carrot dangling in front of the new believer?
The fact is Christ already did the work and has invited us in by grace through faith. This notion that you just keep trying and eventually God will wake up and save you is bull....... oney.
But in practice, and even in the fine print of Apo theology, this is not the case.
I believe in the hearts of many earnest believers, it is the case. But we as the church must speak for salvation as a whole, all of it, including justification and sanctification. Since the new birth has been mostly associated with justification, the idea of it being a process as well as an event has been lost somewhere, except in the pages and minds of the PCI and those who have earnestly followed their mindset after realization of this problem.
__________________ To be able to unite in difference carries more weight than all the opinions the universe can hold
Re: Killing Bulls & Goats Was Easier Than Grace
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