Do You Believe In Women Preachers?

[Praxeas]

2. The Proposals
In 1863, J. B. Lightfoot anticipated the great discoveries of papyri parallels when he said, “If we could only recover letters that ordinary people wrote to each other without any thought of being literary, we should have the greatest possible help for the understanding of the language of the NT generally.”
Thirty-two years later, in 1895, Adolf Deissmann published his Bibelstudien-an innocently titled work that was to revolutionize the study of the NT. In this work (later translated into English under the title Bible Studies) Deissmann showed that the Greek of the NT was not a language invented by the Holy Spirit (Hermann Cremer had called it “Holy Ghost Greek,” largely because 10 percent of its vocabulary had no secular parallels).
Deissmann demonstrated that the vast bulk of NT vocabulary was to be found in the papyri. The pragmatic effect of Deissmann’s work was to render obsolete virtually all lexica and lexical commentaries written before the turn of the century. (Thayer’s lexicon, published in 1886, was consequently outdated shortly after it came off the press-yet, curiously, it is still relied on today by many NT students).


Wallace, D. B. (1999; 2002). Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics - Exegetical Syntax of the New Testament (25). Zondervan Publishing House and Galaxie Software.

Just a note, as I pointed out before, what I was quoting was not Thayer's lexicon commentary but the dictionary definitions.

[paul kimrey]

paul kimrey paul kimrey is online now
Bro Paul Kimrey

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Maryville Tn
Posts: 23
Re: Do You Believe In Women Preachers?
On this thread It was requested that that I give scripture to back up my stance on women preachers and though it may appear that I am picking on girls that is not my intention.The position I take has been the majority position for 2,000 years all I ask is scripture that undeniably and unequivocally over turns Paul's letters to the Corinthians and to Timothy.When we tell someone the plan of Salvation and they claim Matthew 28:19 as their Salvation plan we can take them to the Word in Acts 2:38,Mark 16:16,Acts 10,Acts 19 and many other scriptures. No one does this who advocates women preachers, they just give knee jerk reactions and touchy feely emotions but i give you the Word of God.

[Sister Alvear]

Originally Posted by rdp

Agree w/ some of this, but will just add that since we're to "teach" in the church, then this is the very thing Paul forbid a woamn to do. This word also means "to preach" & is actually translated so 6x's in the NT. Also, you should know that Thayer is hardly backed up by a Greek proffessor today via the great Papyrologocal findings of the late 1800's. You can read about this in the front of Daniel Wallace's GGBB, etc.....just sayin'.

We are to prophecy in the church too...

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by paul kimrey

paul kimrey paul kimrey is online now
Bro Paul Kimrey

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Maryville Tn
Posts: 23
Re: Do You Believe In Women Preachers?
On this thread It was requested that that I give scripture to back up my stance on women preachers and though it may appear that I am picking on girls that is not my intention.The position I take has been the majority position for 2,000 years all I ask is scripture that undeniably and unequivocally over turns Paul's letters to the Corinthians and to Timothy.When we tell someone the plan of Salvation and they claim Matthew 28:19 as their Salvation plan we can take them to the Word in Acts 2:38,Mark 16:16,Acts 10,Acts 19 and many other scriptures. No one does this who advocates women preachers, they just give knee jerk reactions and touchy feely emotions but i give you the Word of God.

Hey Paul, there are many able scholars who do more than give you "touchy feely emotions." Gordon Fee, Ronald Pierce, Rebecca Gruthuis, Loren Cunningham --- including representative scholars from the following Christian denominations:

American Baptist
The Anglican Communion
Assemblies of God
Church of the Brethren
Church of the Foursquare
Church of the Nazarene
Cooperative Baptist Fellowship
Christian Reformed Church
Disciples of Christ
Episcopal Church in the USA
Evangelical Covenant
Evangelical Lutheran Churches of America (ELCA)
Free Methodists
Friends
Mennonite Church of the USA
The Presbyterian Church USA (PCUSA)
The Evangelical Presbyterian Church (EPC)
Reformed Church in America
Salvation Army
United Methodists
Vineyard Fellowship
Wesleyan
Worldwide Church of God

On the opposite side, Complimentarian, re also some notables:
Wayne Grudem
John Piper
Albert Mohler, Jr
Mark Driscoll
Mark Dever
CJ Mahaney
John McArthur
CS Lewis

Some denominations known as Complimentarian:
Southern Baptist Convention, the Presbyterian Church of America, the Anglican Diocese of Sydney, Conservative Mennonites, Newfrontiers, the Dutch Reformed Church, and Sovereign Grace Ministries, Acts 29, among many others. A moderate form of complementarianism is also espoused by the Calvary Chapel movement.

There some really great books written on both sides of these subjects.

[paul kimrey]

There are gifts in the Church ,all true believers may operate severally as they will however Apostles, Prophets,Evangelists, pastors ,and Teachers are offices that need qualifications to be met. The gift of prophesy and the office of a Prophet are not the same.

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by paul kimrey

There are gifts in the Church ,all true believers may operate severally as they will however Apostles, Prophets,Evangelists, pastors ,and Teachers are offices that need qualifications to be met. The gift of prophesy and the office of a Prophet are not the same.

And why is the teacher/pastor the primary leader in most churches?

Do you appoint prophets as we do pastors?

Do you agree with those who call themselves "Prophet So-and-so?"

Where do you find that those are an exhaustive list of "offices" to the Church? Where do you find specific prerequisites for those so-called offices?

Where do you find the distinction between the gift of prophecy and a prophet in the NT? Is it clear? Joel's foretelling of "daughters will prophesy" is this just movement of the Spirit and not a Prophet themselves? What is the difference? Please explain what you know.

[paul kimrey]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

Hey Paul, there are many able scholars who do more than give you "touchy feely emotions." Gordon Fee, Ronald Pierce, Rebecca Gruthuis, Loren Cunningham --- including representative scholars from the following Christian denominations:

American Baptist
The Anglican Communion
Assemblies of God
Church of the Brethren
Church of the Foursquare
Church of the Nazarene
Cooperative Baptist Fellowship
Christian Reformed Church
Disciples of Christ
Episcopal Church in the USA
Evangelical Covenant
Evangelical Lutheran Churches of America (ELCA)
Free Methodists
Friends
Mennonite Church of the USA
The Presbyterian Church USA (PCUSA)
The Evangelical Presbyterian Church (EPC)
Reformed Church in America
Salvation Army
United Methodists
Vineyard Fellowship
Wesleyan
Worldwide Church of God

On the opposite side, Complimentarian, re also some notables:
Wayne Grudem
John Piper
Albert Mohler, Jr
Mark Driscoll
Mark Dever
CJ Mahaney
John McArthur
CS Lewis

Some denominations known as Complimentarian:
Southern Baptist Convention, the Presbyterian Church of America, the Anglican Diocese of Sydney, Conservative Mennonites, Newfrontiers, the Dutch Reformed Church, and Sovereign Grace Ministries, Acts 29, among many others. A moderate form of complementarianism is also espoused by the Calvary Chapel movement.

There some really great books written on both sides of these subjects.

Still just opinions that do not have the authority to change God's Word . This is not a vote to see how many people agree or disagree with women preachers i have given sound Bible teaching to support my view on the matter. If I am wrong prove it with the Word of God.It matters not that 1000 organizations support women preachers ,it matters not if 10,000,000 women stand and declare they are called to preach. What matters is thus say-eth the Word of Gods.

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by paul kimrey

Still just opinions that do not have the authority to change God's Word . This is not a vote to see how many people agree or disagree with women preachers i have given sound Bible teaching to support my view on the matter. If I am wrong prove it with the Word of God.It matters not that 1000 organizations support women preachers ,it matters not if 10,000,000 women stand and declare they are called to preach. What matters is thus say-eth the Word of Gods.

Paul, I didn't respond with that post to create a popularity poll to stand for/against scripture. My point is that all of those men, on both sides, claim to be "people of the Word," they love Jesus and His Church, and yet have different opinions on this issue. All that to say, let's not pretend one side is emotional and the other side is scriptural. That's an unfair argument and just shows you've perhaps have not yet been in any real debate on this subject.

You comment that male leadership has been the norm for 2,000 years, but I also must remind you that Pentecostals took the lead on Egalitarian leadership. Keep that in mind.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by paul kimrey

paul kimrey paul kimrey is online now
Bro Paul Kimrey
The position I take has been the majority position for 2,000 years

1) the "Im right because my view is more popular or is older" is a logical fallacy. One of two, either an argument of numbers/popularity or an argument of antiquities.

2) It's not shown to be the majority position nor by who. It's just claimed "The position I take has been the majority position for 2,000 years"

3) I don't know if you are Oneness or not but someone can claim the Majority position on certain verses is a Trinitarian one, which shows the problem with relying on logical fallacies

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by paul kimrey

There are gifts in the Church ,all true believers may operate severally as they will however Apostles, Prophets,Evangelists, pastors ,and Teachers are offices that need qualifications to be met. The gift of prophesy and the office of a Prophet are not the same.

What are the qualifications of a Prophet or Evangelist?