I'll say one more thing then I'm about through. Once again, this thread was about alleged behavior. To say that I am personally aware of this behavior among black preachers gives the implication that the behavior is somehow a black related issue.
I've said before that the only reason I even commented was in the hopes that someone like MOW would not voice something like this and totally misrepresent himself to others like myself. I know that he pastors a church that is mixed in race, but I'm telling you that there are many black people who may be perspective members who would read that or hear that and really raise an eyebrow.
I co-wrote an article with my pastor on multi-cultural evangelism and one thing that we discussed is if race is irrelevant to you, it's best to highlight race unless it's relevant to the conversation. At that point we were simply discussing allegations against a preacher who happened to be black. And they were the sort of allegations that truthfully we routinely hear about people from other races as well. It is almost perceived as systemic in an organization that is overwhelmingly white...namely the Catholic church.
Very well said, Stew, and obviously at a more tolerable volume than mine.
This really is the entirety of my point. Race was brought in when it should have never been. Any who believe the alleged behavior with Eddie Long is a "Black problem" or primarily a "Black problem" is just WAY off-base. Statistically, a white man is way, WAY more likely to commit this crime and almost always, the perpetrator would claim to be "Straight." IF ANYTHING, this is primarily a "White problem", not a black one. And as you mentioned, one need to look no further than the Catholic church problem to verify this.
Very well said, Stew, and obviously at a more tolerable volume than mine.
This really is the entirety of my point. Race was brought in when it should have never been. Any who believe the alleged behavior with Eddie Long is a "Black problem" or primarily a "Black problem" is just WAY off-base. Statistically, a white man is way, WAY more likely to commit this crime and almost always, the perpetrator would claim to be "Straight." IF ANYTHING, this is primarily a "White problem", not a black one. And as you mentioned, one need to look no further than the Catholic church problem to verify this.
One final question to tstew and Mr. Smith. If the accusation against Bishop Long was "down low behavior" would that (down low) be a "black behavior" issue?
Forget everything else... is "down low" a black community issue? Did it start in the black community? Is it referred to by anyone as "a black community issue?"
Other men engage in sex with other men, that's not the issue I'm discussing, but is the "down low issue" a black community problem bringing HIV and Aids to the black community?
Thanks.
BeenThinkin TOO MUCH!
__________________
"From the time you're born, 'til you ride in the hearse, there ain't nothing bad that couldn't be worse!"
LIFE: Some days you're the dog and some days you're the hydrant!
I have ... Hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia! The fear of long words.
"Prediction is very hard, especially about the future." - Yogi Berra
"I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave in reflection." - Thomas Paine
One final question to tstew and Mr. Smith. If the accusation against Bishop Long was "down low behavior" would that (down low) be a "black behavior" issue?
Forget everything else... is "down low" a black community issue? Did it start in the black community? Is it referred to by anyone as "a black community issue?"
Other men engage in sex with other men, that's not the issue I'm discussing, but is the "down low issue" a black community problem bringing HIV and Aids to the black community?
Thanks.
BeenThinkin TOO MUCH!
In short, down low is not a black behavior. It is a black term for a common behavior.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
One final question to tstew and Mr. Smith. If the accusation against Bishop Long was "down low behavior" would that (down low) be a "black behavior" issue?
Forget everything else... is "down low" a black community issue? Did it start in the black community? Is it referred to by anyone as "a black community issue?"
Other men engage in sex with other men, that's not the issue I'm discussing, but is the "down low issue" a black community problem bringing HIV and Aids to the black community?
Thanks.
BeenThinkin TOO MUCH!
I had heard the expression before, and just thought it meant keeping something a secret. And it had nothing to do with black men or homosexuality.
__________________
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
I had heard the expression before, and just thought it meant keeping something a secret. And it had nothing to do with black men or homosexuality.
LOL. Yeah, that's what it meant for a long time. It kind of morphed. in some circles. However, it's a generic term...not one specific to church or anything.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
One final question to tstew and Mr. Smith. If the accusation against Bishop Long was "down low behavior" would that (down low) be a "black behavior" issue?
Forget everything else... is "down low" a black community issue? Did it start in the black community? Is it referred to by anyone as "a black community issue?"
Other men engage in sex with other men, that's not the issue I'm discussing, but is the "down low issue" a black community problem bringing HIV and Aids to the black community?
Thanks.
BeenThinkin TOO MUCH!
And the accusation as I understand it (and as I understood it to be on this thread) was not "Down Low Behavior", but rather coercion, sexual impropriety, and gross misuse of power and spiritual authority.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
One final question to tstew and Mr. Smith. If the accusation against Bishop Long was "down low behavior" would that (down low) be a "black behavior" issue?
Forget everything else... is "down low" a black community issue? Did it start in the black community? Is it referred to by anyone as "a black community issue?"
Other men engage in sex with other men, that's not the issue I'm discussing, but is the "down low issue" a black community problem bringing HIV and Aids to the black community?
Thanks.
BeenThinkin TOO MUCH!
Not sure how Stew will answer and he's in a better position to answer this than I, but, while "Down-low" is a black term, it's not a black behavior.
Again, as I've said before, whites are FAR more likely to commit this behavior than blacks and almost always, those white men would consider themselves "Straight."
EDIT: I just saw his answer and it's better: "In short, down low is not a black behavior. It is a black term for a common behavior."
...and by common I don't mean widespread, I mean it's not specific to any one race.
What about this statement,
Authorsden.com
“Down low” is the term used to describe the behavior of Black men who secretly have sex with other men while in marriages or relationships with other women. The men who do this do not consider themselves to be gay. The term “down low” originated in the Black community, and is used almost exclusively to describe Black men. But men of all races engage in this behavior. (Remember New Jersey governor James McGreevey?)
or this?
Media Examine African-American Men on "Down Low"
August 4, 2003
The Washington Post today examines black men on the "down low," an expression that describes black men who have sex with men but who never mention their male relationships to their female sex partners, friends or family members. In the black community, the topic of homosexuality -- "and anything else outside the heterosexual norm" -- conflicts with the "interlocking issues of race, religion and gender," Ron Simmons, executive director of Us Helping Us, an organization for black gay and bisexual men in Washington, D.C., said, according to the Post.
Oh well! At least I learned a new term in this debate. Had not heard of "down low" before except.... "Swing low sweet chariot...."
Been Thinkin
__________________
"From the time you're born, 'til you ride in the hearse, there ain't nothing bad that couldn't be worse!"
LIFE: Some days you're the dog and some days you're the hydrant!
I have ... Hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia! The fear of long words.
"Prediction is very hard, especially about the future." - Yogi Berra
"I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave in reflection." - Thomas Paine
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