my rant

[berkeley]

Excellent post, Hash!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by pelathais

From what I've seen, the UPC isn't "consumed and obsessed with Pauls letters to the different churches." They just pick out a few proof texts and go from there. The vast majority of Paul's writings concern the relationship of Grace in salvation. Most UPCers will tend to ignore this.

Over all, however, I agree with your "rant." It is "easier" to get "saved" in a UPC style church than it is to "stay saved." That's why we cycle through so many people. The whole org seems designed to chew up human beings and spit them out. There's really very little about actually living in grace.

If you don't like the "standards," no problem. Get Out! We'll find another poor sucker to fill your pew.

If this were the case, wouldn't there be a lot of independent Oneness. 1 step, no standard churches that are packed?

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by pelathais

From what I've seen, the UPC isn't "consumed and obsessed with Pauls letters to the different churches." They just pick out a few proof texts and go from there. The vast majority of Paul's writings concern the relationship of Grace in salvation. Most UPCers will tend to ignore this.

Over all, however, I agree with your "rant." It is "easier" to get "saved" in a UPC style church than it is to "stay saved." That's why we cycle through so many people. The whole org seems designed to chew up human beings and spit them out. There's really very little about actually living in grace.

If you don't like the "standards," no problem. Get Out! We'll find another poor sucker to fill your pew.

This is soooo true.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by HaShaliach

While it is has yet to catch on through out the entire body of Christ, there are many folks who are no longer content to sit back and listen every week the same old song and dance from the platforms.

I wonder if in the long run the internet does for the church what the printing press did. Namely give the power to the people to expose error.

Before the internet, unless you were able to write a book, you had no voice. No then through forums, blogs, youtube, etc. every teaching, denomination, and tradition under the sun is questioned. I believe that is a good thing, which though the water may be rough right now, hopefully the church in a couple generations (if the Lord tarries) will be better off and more united over it. Differences will probably always still exist, but perhaps we can tear down the walls that divide us over non essentials. Hopefully not only within the oneness movement, but amongst all of Christianity, while at the same time, with the help of God, maintianing the essentials. I believe God is able to help the church do this, but I don't believe He will force the church to do this. Sadly there are men who would rather be in charge of a denomination, call it the church, and exclude all others. We must repent of this party Spirit as a church if we will ever be able to truly be what God intends us to be.

The good news is revival comes to individuals not to denominations or organizations. And each person who comes to see that we are not the church of Christ on our own little island, as the original post points out, the closer we are to being the church God wants us to be. No doubt it will take time, but its not impossible.

God help us.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by coadie

pig skins

Are you ready for some foooooottttbbbaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalll????

[iceniez]

Great discussion !!!!!!!! I agree , REFORM is needed.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

If this were the case, wouldn't there be a lot of independent Oneness. 1 step, no standard churches that are packed?

No. Just a lot of people who are angry and resentful of their experiences with "Oneness Pentecostals" in general. Most would probably have sworn off any kind of church.

[Fiyahstarter]

Originally Posted by HaShaliach

If you don't want people to think for themselves, keep repeating the same message to them over and over again. Tell them if they do not think your way and submit to your authority, they are evil and can not continue in your fellowship. Conform or be dammed. These are strong arguments and have worked for centuries.

Excellent post, as usual.

In regards to the above...This strategy has worked well in the political world as well.

[Fiyahstarter]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

I wonder if in the long run the internet does for the church what the printing press did. Namely give the power to the people to expose error.

Good point!

[Pragmatist]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

If this were the case, wouldn't there be a lot of independent Oneness. 1 step, no standard churches that are packed?

Well there aren't a lot of independent Oneness churches, especially outside of the Bible belt to choose. And then, what Pel said. A lot of people are so disillusioned that they don't go to church at all.